From allard@isi.edu Mon Jun 4 19:06:03 1990 Path: cambridge.apple.com!bloom-beacon!snorkelwacker!think!samsung!usc!venera.isi.edu!allard From: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: generators vs. batteries (was: Re: Soubitez gen. question) Message-ID: <13752@venera.isi.edu> Date: 4 Jun 90 17:27:46 GMT References: <7780418@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> <9478@pt.cs.cmu.edu> Sender: news@venera.isi.edu Reply-To: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard) Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute Lines: 147 arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Arnie Berger) writes: > tallis@LATEEN.PC.CS.CMU.EDU (Hans Tallis) writes: > >I recently put a Soubitez generator on my bike. It's a BB/chainstay mount, > >where the kickstand would be put. At higher speeds (> 20mph) it starts to > >squeal and whine, as if it's missing some lubrication. Is this typical for > >new generators? Is there a way to oil it? > I'm pretty sure that it has a sleeve bearing, so you should be able to shoot > some WD40 into it. However, I would recommend that you trash the generator > and replace it with a 6V GEL-CELL battery that you can recharge. You can buy > a good battery for about $10 and build a simple recharger from Radio Shack > parts. My advice to the original query is that you want to oil it from time to time, but some whine is normal. If the whine is really bad, you may have some bad bearings, of course. But now, I would like to broaden the subject: Like many of us, I have experimented with different lighting systems for years. The past five or ten years have seen the advent of some usable rechargable battery based systems. However, generators still have their adherants, including me. Here are some of my experiences on this subject. 1. Bottom Bracket Generators. I only know of three worthwhile bottom bracket generators. The Soubitez (3 Watts), the Sanyo(3W), and the Velo Lux beefed up Sanyo(4.5W). The Soubitez, as pointed out by other postings, has some mechanical ugliness and weakness to it. Nevertheless, it is the only one which has a postive action lever for turning it off. With the Sanyo, simply lifting the generator a bit off the surface of the tire will click it into its resting postion. I have had this happen to me when running over a rough road, leaving me without lights just when I needed them. With the Soubitez, you have to physically reach done and move a lever for the generator to be put into the off position. I have used both the Soubitez and Sanyo under all conditions. I have been happy with both. They do not put out as much light as the the more recent battery based units do, but they go for an infinite amount of time between rechargings ((:), and put out plenty of light for warning oncoming traffic and even for seeing the surface of the road in dark conditions. The Velo Lux unit is a customized Sanyo, built by Sanyo for Velo Lux, according to someone who I talked with by phone at Velo Lux. The reason I was talking with that person is because I had ordered their generator, set up the 4W front, .5W rear bulbs, and, upon turning the unit on, fried both bulbs within about two seconds. Why, I asked, did this happen? The answer was that I was trying to run the unit without the a rechargable battery as part of the circuit. That was a no no. There is hope that, with approporiate electronics know how consultation, I'll be able to rig up a super 4.5W setup, sans rechargable battery, but I haven't had time to get back to that yet. Why my reluctance to use batteries, you ask? Because you have to recharge them, because batteries go dead, because they weigh a pound or two, and because they take up space on the bike. 2. Old fashion side wall generators. They wear out sew ups unless you run them on the rim via a special rubber wheel which goes over the regular generator wheel. They look ugly. They weight a ton. They're hard to mount without harming the frame or fork. They emit very little power. Etc, etc. I did have two such units which had their virtues. The good old Soubitez front fork all-in-one generator head light. The damn thing would simply not ever wear out or burn out. Most reliable light I ever owned. And the old 12V Rampar unit. Wieghed pounds. But competed with motorcycle headlights on a down hill, once you figured out which bulbs to buy that would not fry at speed. 3. Battery units Contrary to my above remarks, I do see virtue in rechargable battery units. An issue of Bicycling last fall has a good survey of most of the currently available units. Most powerful, by far: the Night Sun, a 20W high beam/ 10W low beam double headlight unit. But it costs $200. I decided to acquire a battery unit on my short ride bide (i.e., my city/mountain bike). I went in to a store thinking either Night Sun or Brite Light. I walked out with a unit which was not even in the Bicycling issue. It's the new Cat Eye thing. You buy the new Cat Eye 1.1 Watt Halogen. You buy a kit which includes a 4W bulb, a small light weight battery good for 1 solid hour of riding, a recharger, and some miscellaneous connecting wires and stuff. You chuck the AA cells from the original unit, and wire up the little battery pack, which on my bike fit very neatly near the top of my rear stays. You now have a quite useful and brilliant light for city riding. The whole deal comes to one third of what the Night Sun goes for, yet I think the Cat Eye, at 4W, is quite competitive or maybe even better than the 10W low beam of the the Night Sun. They use different bulb technologies, and in a side by side, in store, comparison, I frankly preferred the brilliant white narrow beam of the Cat Eye halogen to the Night Sun's low beam. Nothing can compete with the Night Sun high beam. One feature of the Cat Eye I particularly liked: It has two little side ports which cast a brilliant pencil diameter beam both left and right. A nice touch. A tip. If you get the beefed up Cat Eye kit. Drill a couple of holes in the headlight casing up behind where the reflector is. Some people have reported that the stock reflector can melt when used with the 4W bulb. Another tip. The Cat Eye mounts *beneath* the handlebars of most mountain bikes quite nicely. The beam is symmetrical, so its not upside down if you do that. SUMMARY. Comparison of bottom bracket generator units to rechargable battery units: ADVANTAGES OF GENERATORS. Won't go out on you due to low batteries. Never need to recharge or replace batteries. Light weight. There when you need it. ADVANTAGES OF RECHARGABLES: More light. Light stays on when bike is stopped. No drag while you ride. (not that big a deal) Does not make noise. (also not that big a deal) Helmet units can be pointed at things. In short, generator units are for die hard ride alot at night and don't want to even think about my lights when I get home type people. Rechargables are for everyone else. Dennis Allard allard@isi.edu From allard@isi.edu Sat Sep 15 14:14:40 1990 Path: mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!usc!isi.edu!allard From: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Light systems Keywords: lights Message-ID: <14963@venera.isi.edu> Date: 14 Sep 90 18:11:29 GMT References: <57243@microsoft.UUCP> Sender: news@isi.edu Reply-To: allard@isi.edu (Dennis Allard) Organization: USC Information Sciences Institute Lines: 46 In article <57243@microsoft.UUCP>, timha@microsoft.UUCP (Tim HARRIS) writes: > ... Velo Light, Lite-Brite (sic), etc... There are several of these > that range from $50 to $120+. Has anyone out there seen a comparison > of these systems or had any super positive or super negative things > to say about them. Cost is not too important ... This is from a post I made in June. It has to do with how to modify your existing Cateye halogen to be a super city bike headlight. An issue of Bicycling last fall has a good survey of most of the currently available units. Most powerful, by far: the Night Sun, a 20W high beam/ 10W low beam double headlight unit. But it costs $200. I decided to acquire a battery unit on my short ride bide (i.e., my city/mountain bike). I went in to a store thinking either Night Sun or Brite Light. I walked out with a unit which was not even in the Bicycling issue. It's the new Cat Eye thing. You buy the Cat Eye 1.1 Watt Halogen. You buy a kit which includes a 4W bulb, a small light weight battery good for 1 solid hour of riding, a recharger, and some miscellaneous connecting wires and stuff. You chuck the AA cells from the original unit, and wire up the little battery pack, which on my bike fit very neatly near the top of my rear stays. You now have a quite useful and brilliant light for city riding. The whole deal comes to one third of what the Night Sun goes for, yet I think the Cat Eye, at 4W, is quite competitive or maybe even better than the 10W low beam of the the Night Sun. They use different bulb technologies, and in a side by side, in store, comparison, I frankly preferred the brilliant white narrow beam of the Cat Eye halogen to the Night Sun's low beam. Nothing can compete with the Night Sun high beam. One feature of the Cat Eye I particularly liked: It has two little side ports which cast a brilliant pencil diameter beam both left and right. A nice touch. A tip. If you get the beefed up Cat Eye kit. Drill a couple of holes in the headlight casing up behind where the reflector is. Some people have reported that the stock reflector can melt when used with the 4W bulb. Another tip. The Cat Eye mounts *beneath* the handlebars of most mountain bikes quite nicely. The beam is symmetrical, so its not upside down if you do that. Dennis Allard allard@isi.edu From maa@ssc-vax.UUCP Tue Oct 16 05:40:52 1990 Path: mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!ssc-vax!maa From: maa@ssc-vax.UUCP (Mark A Allyn) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Night Sun question Summary: Kelsun Distributers Message-ID: <3495@ssc-bee.ssc-vax.UUCP> Date: 12 Oct 90 19:01:02 GMT References: <1680136@hpfelg.HP.COM> Organization: Boeing Aerospace & Electronics, Seattle WA Lines: 50 I had the same problem and I solved it this way and got a far better system for the money. 1. The lamps came from a company called Kel-sun Distributers who are located on Bel-Red Road in Redmond, Wa. These lamps are used for track lighting for store displays. They are 12 volt sealed beam bulbs; 2 inches in diameter. They are available in a variety of wattages and meam widths. They cost about 15 to 20 dollars apiece. I ended up buying three bulbs: a 20 watt 14 degree beam for normal use, a 20 watt 10 degree beam for long distance stuff and a 50 watt 10 degree spotlight for helmet mount for looking around corners etc. Total cost about 50 dollars. 2. I baught 2 standard electronics enclosures from a Radio Shack type of place for about 6 dollars and cut the front panel out and replaced it with a piece of scrap glass that I had lying around. I then mounted the lamps in this box. Total cost of about 12 dollars. 3. I baught a 12 volt 12 amp hour battery from a local electronic parts jobber. Cost about 50 dollars. 4. I baught a 12 volt 20 watt solar panel from Kootenai Radio Co. in Kootenai Idaho. This cost about 120 dollars and is used to charge the battery during the day when I ride in the sun. 5. I baught a car tail light for about 5 dolars form a car parts place. 6. With a little handy work on my part and a few miscilaneous switches, wires and parts, I mounted the stuff on the bike and did all of the packaging myself. Cost: Free. The total cost of this system is about 230 dollars and it is far superior in capability than the Night Sun. It is far more powerfull, far more flexable, far more long lasting, and most important of all, it is self sustaining for long trips with the solar panel. Mark A. Allyn phone 206-773-8308 (day) 206-526-8852 (nite) 206-773-4393 if all fails: US Mail Boeing Company Mail Stop 8Y-03 P.O. Box 3999 Seattle Wa. 98124 Email uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!maa Ham WA1SEY Radio From jamescb@sco.COM Fri Nov 23 17:55:52 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!uunet!sco!jamescb From: jamescb@sco.COM (James C. Bohem) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Turbo-Cat style Cateye halogen conversion Summary: a cheap do it yourself bright light Keywords: light halogen cateye conversion Message-ID: <8693@scolex.sco.COM> Date: 13 Nov 90 02:20:57 GMT Sender: news@sco.COM Distribution: na Lines: 51 With all the talk on lighting systems of late (not to mention the shorter days), here's what I ended up putting together last week, which seems to be working well so far. These ideas were stolen from the Turbo-Cat (which I wasn't willing to pay for), various articles in this newsgroup, etc.: Replace the standard Cateye bulb with an Eveready HPR36, which is labeled HPR50 on the bulb housing, 5.2v/0.85a (an article that appeared earlier indicated that there are two different bulbs packaged as HPR36's, but all the ones I found had this rating). For a power source, I got a 6v/3ah gel-cell from Haltek of Mountain View, CA (415-969-0510), which fits in a standard water bottle cage, or, inside a standard bottle if you don't mind ripping it up. These cells have a built in regulator and can be left charging for extended periods, allowing the use of a simple non-regulated charger. To connect the two, I used Radio Shack 5mm coax power plugs/jacks and 22 ga. wire, cutting a hole in the Cateye housing just behind the side window. There's a space between the bulb housing and battery area that is large enough to accomodate a jack here; it's wired to one battery terminal at the bulb end, and one at the switch end, with a dummy C-cell (constructed from aluminum foil and a spare wine bottle cork) on the other side. If you don't already own a Cateye Halogen, you can save part of the cost by buying its krypton equivalent from Radio Shack for $6.95 (vs. about $18 for the Cateye). Costs: HPR36 bulb $2.94 Gel-cell $4.45 (sold 2 @ $9.90) jacks/plugs $3.98 (2 ea. jacks/plugs @ $1.99) And a water bottle if you don't have an old spare. I'm using a 6v/300ma DC adapter to charge the battery - takes about 12 hours. This was lying around the house - one can be obtained from Radio Shack or the like for $5-10. My cost: about $12; probably about $25-30 if you started with none of the parts. The Turbo-Cat goes for about $60, and has a 1.1ah battery and a lower amperage bulb. I have ample light for commuting on dark streets at up to 15-20 mph. From dvp@sequent.com Fri Nov 23 17:59:42 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!uw-beaver!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!crg5!dvp From: dvp@sequent.com (Dan Vander Ploeg) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Report: Sanyo Headlamp LK-H202E, Halogen, 2 C-cells Message-ID: Date: 13 Nov 90 21:45:05 GMT Sender: root@crg5.UUCP Distribution: rec Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Beaverton, Oregon Lines: 58 >from the Performance catalog, $19.95 + shipping SUMMARY A well-made unit with some nice features at a reasonable price. The 1.25-watt halogen bulb provides enough light for cautious riding in the dark, and is a nice improvement over a plain flashlight, but for high-speed cruising you will need to spend more money or time. LIGHT The lamp does not have a faceted lens, and the beam is highly focused. There is enough light to the sides to let motorists see you coming, but the part of the pattern that is bright enough to let you see the road is quite small. Blinking mode is provided by a tiny circuit board behind the switch. It seems really eye-catching, great for riding at dusk. ADJUSTMENT The reflector and bulb assembly pivots from side to side, but its range of travel is small; with the lamp mounted on the front section of my Scott AT4 bars, the beam would not point straight ahead. I had to loosen the bolt in the mount (10mm socket wrench and Phillips screwdriver) and rotate the mounting shoe to get a little extra adjustment. For vertical adjustment, you must loosen the mounting clamp with a screwdriver. MOUNTING The light is designed to hang beneath the handlebars, and is easily detached from its mount. The plastic mounting assembly has a single screw for clamping it to the handlebar, but opens wide enough to go over the bar. A thick and a thin rubber shim are provided. The clamp is secure enough to hold the light rigidly in position. OPERATION The three-position slide switch falls conveniently under your thumb if your hands are on the bar next to the light. The switch is easy to use even when wearing winter gloves. The reflector and bulb assembly is protected by rubber sides a set of three stone-guard bars across the front. The lamp rattles on rough roads. Wrapping the batteries in six inches of duct tape (not eight inches--the cover won't close) seemed to reduce the rattles and improve the electrical connection. -- // UUCP: ...!{tektronix|ogicse}!sequent!dvp _______ =====// =========================================================| # | \\ // Internet: dvp@sequent.com | | ==\ /============================================================| | Dan Vander Ploeg ------- From jdc@rama.UUCP Fri Nov 23 18:01:17 1990 Path: mintaka!olivea!apple!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!rama!jdc From: jdc@rama.UUCP (James D. Cronin) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Yet more light bulb news (20 watt halogen, cheap) Message-ID: <10917@rama.UUCP> Date: 15 Nov 90 01:13:08 GMT Distribution: na Organization: Scientific Calculations, Fishers, NY Lines: 19 For those of you with 12-volt lights, I've found a place that carries 20-watt halogen bulbs at a reasonable price. Controls International lists them in their 1991 catalog for $6.40 each, in quantity one. The stock number is J-IHL222. They call it a "replacement bulb", for their halogen gooseneck lamps. Controls International takes credit card orders at their toll-free number, 1-800-237-7079. Know of any places that can beat $6.40? A local lighting retailer sells them for $15 each. Ouch. On a related note, where can other low-wattage 12-volt halogen bulbs be procured? Thanks...Jim Cronin jdc@rama.sc.harris.com Note: I have no connection with Controls International other than being a (soon to be satisfied?) customer. I ordered two bulbs for my 12-volt "lawn light" head/tail light setup. From chandler@kinetics.com Fri Nov 23 18:01:36 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!excelan!chandler From: chandler@kinetics.com (Mark Chandler) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Cat Eye Halogen Comments Keywords: cate eye light comments Message-ID: <2380@excelan.COM> Date: 11 Nov 90 02:34:04 GMT Sender: news@excelan.COM Organization: Novell, Walnut Creek CA. Lines: 12 Those of you looking for a decent, inexpensive headlight might want to consider the Cat Eye Halogen. It's relatively small & light, & throw a decent beam. There are, of course, much better lights available. But for $20 (retail, $15-18 mail order), it's better than the typical Wonder lights. Now if I can just find a cheap source for replacement bulbs. Mark Chandler chandler@wc.novell.com From mink@cfa.HARVARD.EDU Fri Nov 23 18:01:55 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!paperboy!husc6!frooz!cfa.HARVARD.EDU From: mink@cfa.HARVARD.EDU (Doug Mink, OIR) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: hybrid light systems Message-ID: <473@cfa.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 16 Nov 90 21:00:57 GMT References: <1990Nov12.200341.406@watcsc.waterloo.edu> Sender: news@cfa.HARVARD.EDU Distribution: na Lines: 28 >From article <1990Nov12.200341.406@watcsc.waterloo.edu>, by marcelg@watcsc.waterloo.edu (Marcel Goudeseune): > Does anyone know of any hybrid light systems? Specifically, a light > which operates on a generator while you're riding, but is capable of > keeping a charge for about 30 seconds while you're stopped at a > stoplight? Two different ways to deal with this problem exist. Both Soubitez and Union make battery packs which automatically fill in when the generator isn't providing current. I used the Soubitez for a couple of months until I broke one of the contacts. I've been planning to fix it and reinstall it for quite some time, but haven't gotten around to doing that yet. It uses 3 AA batteries, probably so as to not overpower a 5-V circuit. 4 NiCads would work , but wouldn't fit in the case. I haven't tried 3. Union's battery pack is recharged by the generator, I believe. Velolux makes a rechargeable battery-powered lighting system which can include an optional generator. The generator recharges the batteries which provide more power to the lights than the generator can. The lights stay on while you're stopped, but the generator isn't really powering them while you are riding, only slowing the drain on the batteries. Doug Mink Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (and Boston Area Bicycle Coalition) Internet: mink@cfa.harvard.edu UUCP: {husc6,cmc12,mit-eddie}!harvard!cfa!mink BITNET: mink@cfa From dahls@idt.unit.no Fri Nov 23 18:02:22 1990 Path: mintaka!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!nuug!sigyn.idt.unit.no!dahls From: dahls@idt.unit.no (Jorn Dahl-Stamnes) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Nightsun Q. Message-ID: <1990Nov17.124220.4129@idt.unit.no> Date: 17 Nov 90 12:42:20 GMT Distribution: rec.bicycles Organization: Div. of CS & T, Norwegian Institute of Technology Lines: 34 Hello bikers. I just got some information from Nightsun about their lightning system. They now can deliver a new ni-cad water bottle battery with their system to the cost of $190. The average lifetime for the lamps are 350 hours for the 10 Watt krypton lamp 2500 hours for the 20 Watt halogen lamp. The price for the lamps are $9 and $8.50. Does any of you users of nightsun have any experience or comments about the lifetime and price for the lamps? Can I get cheaper lamps elsewere? Since I'm planning to by a nightsun, I have to know if I can get the lamps in Norway (and I therefor need the lamps type). The fact sheet says nothing about operating voltage. Is it 6 Volt or 12 Volt? Nightsun say they can ship one system to me via United Parcel Service for $48. It will take about 3 to 4 days before I got it. Fast - but expensive. Is it possible to send it by second class mail? How much cheaper will it cost? And what about the shipping time? In the order form they write that the system have a 10 watt lo-beam and a 30 watt hi-beam light, but in fact sheet they write that the high beam lamp is only 20 watt. Is the 30 watt a result of 10+20 watt (low + high beam), or is it a typo? *** NOTE *** NOTE *** NOTE *** send reply to dahl-stamnes@elab-runit.sintef.no - Jorn Yngve Dahl-Stamnes another local Cannondale boy. "Everybody say nothing comes 2 easy, but when u got it babe, nothing comes 2 bad" - Prince. From lmh@iago.caltech.edu Fri Nov 23 18:02:47 1990 Path: mintaka!mit-eddie!wuarchive!usc!jarthur!nntp-server.caltech.edu!iago.caltech.edu!lmh From: lmh@iago.caltech.edu (Henling, Lawrence M.) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Lights (tail) Message-ID: <1990Nov18.053348.6805@nntp-server.caltech.edu> Date: 18 Nov 90 05:27:06 GMT Sender: news@nntp-server.caltech.edu Reply-To: lmh@iago.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 19 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4x Nntp-Posting-Host: iago.caltech.edu There does seem to be a manufacturer using the bright LEDs. VistaLite models VL-300 and VL-500 2 AA batteries last 300-500 hours 3.5 oz flash 6 times per second visible to 2000' Unit looks to be about 4" wide, 1.5" high $15 (800) 755 9905 This information from California Bicyclist and Southwest Cycling. Does anybody have any experience or comments? It sounds like a pretty good tailight to me. How does it compare to the xenon flashers? larry henling lmh@iago.caltech.edu From jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu Fri Nov 30 16:01:53 1990 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uflorida!gatech!purdue!ccncsu!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!jt480401 From: jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: 35W halogen quick-release headlight system Keywords: light, halogen Message-ID: <11395@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> Date: 26 Nov 90 17:07:01 GMT Sender: news@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU Reply-To: jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins Lines: 22 Another light system for any who are still wanting to build one! Sylvania makes a plastic car 35+35 watt headlight that's very lightweight. The model number is HP4656 and these can be found at any auto parts store for about $10 - $12. I utilzed two Cateye halogen-type mounts (i.e., the sliding type) from the Radio Shack "Bicycle Light" - these are only $7 each. These were attached to a small 4" X 2" wood block by using two stiff springs, mounted under tension. The headlight was then glued to this block. This gives a nice quick-release system, that I have found stable on washboard roads. I use a momentary-contact push button switch to flash the full 70 watt capability for situations where someone may not have seen me. I keep my 6 AH battery on my Blackburn rack with some bungy cords. The whole system is suprisingly lightweight. With this setup, one can expect about 2 hours of light. I've had drivers dim their brights for me several times, and the field-of-view is really wide and deep, making night riding in rural areas or trails enjoyable. Keep a spare Cateye for emergencies; this can slide onto the existing mounts if necessary. Total cost for me ran about $75, including $35 for the 6AH battery. --Joe Turk jt480401@longs.lance.colostate.edu From hammonds@riacs.edu Wed Dec 12 15:58:27 1990 Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Path: mintaka!think.com!linus!agate!riacs!hammonds From: hammonds@riacs.edu (Steve Hammond) Subject: Lighting Systems Message-ID: <1990Dec12.174802.15509@riacs.edu> Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center Date: Wed, 12 Dec 90 17:48:02 GMT I am typing this in from reader's response in the december issue of a local bike rag called Northern California Cyclist. (w/o permission) {stuff deleted ...} "As a regular night cyclist and a leader of numerous all-night rides over the years, I believe the following lighting system characteristics are more reasonable: 1) Quartz-halogen headlight of 12 to 55 watts (legal maximum). Mediocre systems have lights of less than 12 watts, while totally inadequate systems drop below six watts. 2) High intensity rear strobe light. A piercing strobe, visible from both the rear and sides, commands the attention of oblivious motorists. Poor systems have a small, barely visible taillight. 3) Mounting of lights. The headlight should be attached to the headset- mounted front reflector bracket found on most bicycles. The handlebar type mount is almost as good. Helmet mounted light, while useful for roadside repairs, do not illuminate the road ahead when you are in the proper riding position on a bicycle with drop handlebars. The best location for a rear light is at the motorists' eye level (most tal lights mount too low to be useful). 4) Battery capacity. For high power lights, you need a gelled electrolyte battery from 2.6 AH (1.8 hours with 14watt headlamp and 3 watt strobe) to 6.5 AH (4.6 hours). These are of reasonable weight and cost. It is important to carefully evaluate the specifications of a system prior to purchase. Several heavily advertised systems prove that a high price tag is no guarantee of an adequate system. A good lighting system can be put together by someone with moderate mechanical ability for about $60. Designed for commuting and touring, the system consists of a 3 watt xenon strobe ($16), a 14-55 watt head- light ($7) and a gelled electolyte batter plus charger ($15-20). Wire, connectors, mounting hardware, enclosures, etc. add about another $15. All parts are readily available. Since I have had numerous requests for information on building lighting systems, I`ve put together a very detailed set of plans (38 pages). If a reader would like an almost free copy, they can send me $2.85 ($1.05 postage + $1.80 for photocopying). Steven M. Scarf P.O. Box 467 Cupertino, CA 9501-0467 " +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I haven't written for a copy of this myself so I can't comment on it. I thought there was sufficient discussion here for me to type it in and share it... Steve H. -- Steve Hammond * Parallel Systems Division * RIACS * NASA Ames Research Center From arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM Wed Dec 12 15:58:46 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpcc05!col!hpldola!hp-lsd!arnie From: arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Arnie Berger) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: 35W halogen quick-release headlight system Message-ID: <28620017@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> Date: 3 Dec 90 22:08:37 GMT References: <11395@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> Organization: HP Logic Systems Division - ColoSpgs, CO Lines: 30 In, / hp-lsd:rec.bicycles / jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) / 10:07 am Nov 26, 1990 / Joe Turk writes, ....... > With this setup, one can expect about 2 hours of light. I've had >drivers dim their brights for me several times, and the field-of-view >is really wide and deep, making night riding in rural areas or trails >enjoyable. Keep a spare Cateye for emergencies; this can slide onto >the existing mounts if necessary. Total cost for me ran about $75, >including $35 for the 6AH battery. DigiKey has a good selection of Gel-Cell batteries for sale via mail order. They would be a good source for such a set-up. I built a similar light using the bulb and reflector housing from a building emergency light. These are the lights that go on, like in theatres, when there's a power failure. I used a 6V, 12Watt bulb that lasts for about 45 Minutes with 3 lead-acid "D" cells. My commute is 20 minutes so I need to charge it daily. Works great. My wife drove by me once and said it looked like a motorcycle headlight. ---------- Arnie Berger arnie@hplsdvt Telnet 590-5642 From mikey@shuksan.UUCP Wed Dec 12 15:58:57 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!bcstec!shuksan!mikey From: mikey@shuksan.UUCP (Mike Fields) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: 35W halogen quick-release headlight system Summary: lighting, batteries Message-ID: <356@shuksan.UUCP> Date: 7 Dec 90 17:48:28 GMT References: <11395@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> <28620017@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> Organization: The Boeing Co., MMST, Seattle, Wa. Lines: 46 In article <28620017@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM>, arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Arnie Berger) writes: > In, > / hp-lsd:rec.bicycles / jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) / > 10:07 am Nov 26, 1990 / > > > Joe Turk writes, > > ....... > > With this setup, one can expect about 2 hours of light. I've had > >drivers dim their brights for me several times, and the field-of-view > >is really wide and deep, making night riding in rural areas or trails > >enjoyable. Keep a spare Cateye for emergencies; this can slide onto > >the existing mounts if necessary. Total cost for me ran about $75, > >including $35 for the 6AH battery. > > DigiKey has a good selection of Gel-Cell batteries for sale via mail order. > ---------- > Arnie Berger > arnie@hplsdvt I was over at Toys "R" Us (try finding a reverse R on the keyboard!) yesterday and noticed in the section where they have the kids cars (the ones they ride in), that they had what looked like GelCell Battery packs - they were approx $19 and were about 2.5" * 4" * 6" which would make them a reasonable size battery. they came with a quick disconnect on them. Since they are used for powering the little electric riding cars for children (which go MUCH longer than they should in our neighborhood ;-) ), they would also probably work well for a lighting system. The advantage here is that since these seem to be a standard size (one size fit all cars - 6v each, 2 for 12v) getting a spare or replacing one that was going bad would not require modifing your existing mounting system. I was not able to find any ratings stampled on the ones that were on the display (display only) and the real ones were in back and you had to pick them up. This should provide a standard size for people (I think Toys R Us is fairly widespread but other toy stores should also carry them). -- Mikey (yes "he likes it!") ======================================================= Mike Fields ==> uunet!bcstec!shuksan!mikey (206) 657-6136 [work] 12022 NE 138th Pl. uw-beaver!ssc-vax!shuksan!mikey (206) 821-3492 [home] Kirkland, Wa. 98034 From pamela@circus.camex.com Wed Dec 12 16:04:12 1990 Path: mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!camex!circus!pamela From: pamela@circus.camex.com (Pamela Wybieracki) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Nashbar strobe arm light is great!!! Message-ID: <1687@camex.COM> Date: 5 Dec 90 20:20:54 GMT References: <1686@winnie.fit.edu> <1990Dec1.231450.15029@midway.uchicago.edu> <4076@male.EBay.Sun.COM> Sender: news@Camex.COM Reply-To: pamela@circus.UUCP (Pamela Wybieracki) Organization: Camex Inc., Boston, MA Lines: 17 Well I have tried a new taillight. It's advertised in the December issue of *Bicycling* on page 48. It's very compact, takes two AA batteries, and no bulbs. It uses LEDS which flash. I don't know if it qualifies as a strobe, but I've found it very useful. Now to find out if its legal for Paris-Brest-Paris... Speaking of which, I just received the latest International Randonneurs newsletter. Good news for those who want to do PBP this summer... You can now qualify in one year by doing a 200, 300, 400, 600, and 1000 km ride this year. If anyone is interested email me, and I'll send all the details. Pamela Blalock Wybieracki pamela@camex.com Camex, Inc. 75 Kneeland St., Boston, MA 02111 Tel: (617) 426-3577 From wordy@cup.portal.com Wed Dec 12 16:04:46 1990 Path: mintaka!yale!think.com!samsung!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!wordy From: wordy@cup.portal.com (Steven K Roberts) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Nashbar strobe arm light is great!!! Message-ID: <36612@cup.portal.com> Date: 6 Dec 90 09:03:38 GMT References: <1686@winnie.fit.edu> Distribution: na Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 29 The high-brightness LEDs mentioned earlier in this thread are in the process of revolutionizing taillights (automotive as well as bicycle). I have just made a set of taillights for BEHEMOTH the unixycle using clusters of Stanley and HP LEDs that produce 4 candela at 20 mA. For trailer taillights, each of the two units contains two clusters of 14 LEDs, two parallelled chains of 7 in series, running on a "global" 13.25 V DC-DC converter. The top cluster in each taillight is used continuously (at night, of course); the bottom is for "hazard" blinkers and turn signals. A third, smaller unit is on the bike itself, primarily for riding without the trailer. The bottom line is significantly better brightness than standard incandescent taillights.... at 1/6 the current. Almost no power is wasted as heat. My other major rear visibility light is an oldie, purchased from Bicycle Lighting Systems about 7 years ago -- the big 7" highway barricade flasher. I look like a roving hole in the road for an average of 150 mA or so at 12V. I've heard it said that this is technically illegal in some states... I've only been questioned about it once and I told the cop that it has probably saved my life a few times. He gave me a thumbs up and told me to leave it on. Cheers from the bikelab... Steve Roberts Nomadic Research Labs (please address any direct replies to wordy@bikelab.Sun.com -- I have a SparcStation now :-) From jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu Wed Dec 12 16:04:58 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!emory!gatech!purdue!ccncsu!longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu!jt480401 From: jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Where to find gel-cell batteries for bike lights Keywords: light Message-ID: <11573@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> Date: 6 Dec 90 17:06:35 GMT Sender: news@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU Reply-To: jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins Lines: 28 This is from the latest catalog published by All Electronics Corp. in Van Nuys, CA (1-800-826-5432) : VOLTAGE AMP*HR RATING SIZE (INCHES) PRICE 12 6.5 6 X 3 X 2 37.00 6 1.2 4 X 1 X 1 1/2 7.00 6 4.0 4 X 2 1/2 X 2 12.00 6 1.0 2 X 2 X 1 1/2 8.50 There's a few others that I've not listed. They also have 12V and 6V DC wall transformers that put out 300-700 mA ranges; these run about $3 to $5 and make nice battery chargers. For those of you who are running the 6 volt bulb in the Cateye halogen light, the last 3 batteries listed above work great. They are very small and suprisingly lightweight. The 4AH one fits nicely in a under-the-seat bag and will give almost 5 hrs. of light with the 6V halogen bulb. Other notes: You can find the Eveready 6V halogen bulb in any Ace Hardware (Eveready HPR52, I think). Radio Shack sells Cateye look-alikes (same manufacturer) for $7.00 vs. $20 for the real Cateye at your local bike store (Part no. 61-2511). These make fun electronics projects and promote bike night safety. --Joe jt480401@longs.lance.colostate.edu From arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM Wed Dec 12 16:05:20 1990 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpcc05!col!hpldola!hp-lsd!arnie From: arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Arnie Berger) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Where to find gel-cell batteries for bike lights Message-ID: <28620020@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> Date: 10 Dec 90 19:54:29 GMT References: <11573@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> Organization: HP Logic Systems Division - ColoSpgs, CO Lines: 39 In, / hp-lsd:rec.bicycles / jt480401@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (joe turk) / 10:06 am Dec 6, 1990 / Joe Turk writes, > There's a few others that I've not listed. They also have 12V and 6V >DC wall transformers that put out 300-700 mA ranges; these run about $3 >to $5 and make nice battery chargers. You need to be a little careful about what you use to recharge gel-cell batteries. The simplest technique, though not the fastest, is to charge them with a constant DC voltage of 7.2V, for a 6 Volt battery, or 14.4 Volts, for a 12V battery. This voltage will both charge the battery and not overcharge it, once it is up to full charge. Wall transformers can have a very wide variety of characteristics for a nominal 6V DC. You can have serious safety problems if you aren't careful. The voltage may be low, but there's a good bit of stored energy in those things. Also, to the person who wrote to me asking for a source for batteries, my reply to you bounced back twice. I hope you read this. I get my batteries >from : DigiKey - 1-800-DIGIKEY Arnie ---------- Arnie Berger arnie@hplsdvt Telnet 590-5642 From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Tue Dec 18 15:41:09 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!emory!gatech!bloom-beacon!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Lighting Systems Message-ID: <18159@shlump.nac.dec.com> Date: 13 Dec 90 20:06:25 GMT References: <1990Dec12.174802.15509@riacs.edu> Sender: newsdaemon@shlump.nac.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@ultra.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 68 In article <1990Dec12.174802.15509@riacs.edu>, hammonds@riacs.edu (Steve Hammond) writes: There are some interesting and helpful ideas in the original article, and I'm adding my comments here. I commute 12 miles each way on dark, unlit streets with very little traffic. I would change my lighting system somewhat if I saw more traffic. |> 1) Quartz-halogen headlight of 12 to 55 watts (legal maximum). Mediocre |> systems have lights of less than 12 watts, while totally inadequate systems |> drop below six watts. A little strong, but close. When I had a Brite Lite 2.4 W bulb, every car that I passed dimmed its lights for me proving that I was visible, but I couldn't see well enough to ride at a decent clip. When I upgraded to 2 Brite Lite 4 W headlights, I could ride up to 14 or 15 mph comfortably. I just upgraded the headlights to 6W each, and that's very good. I wish I had another helmet-mounted light for lighting the inside of curves, which is still a problem. |> |> 2) High intensity rear strobe light. A piercing strobe, visible from |> both the rear and sides, commands the attention of oblivious motorists. |> Poor systems have a small, barely visible taillight. A strobe lets people know you're there, but it doesn't give them a good idea of exactly where you are. Depth perception of strobes is pretty bad, so you want to also have a steady light. I use a Belt Beacon as a strobe, and a standard Brite Lite taillight. I also have a Vista Lite, which is a new taillight that looks sort of like a reflector, and has 3 bright LEDs which flash. (It was recently discussed here.) That, and reflective tape everywhere (especially low down, on the bottom of my rear fender, where car headlights are aimed) makes me very visible. I'd like to make a constantly on taillight from the LEDs used in the Vista Lite. It would be brighter and use less power than the taillight I have now. As soon as I figure out where to get the LEDs, and how to mount them I'll do this and let you know how it works. |> 3) Mounting of lights. The headlight should be attached to the headset- |> mounted front reflector bracket found on most bicycles. The handlebar |> type mount is almost as good. Helmet mounted light, while useful for |> roadside repairs, do not illuminate the road ahead when you are in the |> proper riding position on a bicycle with drop handlebars. The best location |> for a rear light is at the motorists' eye level (most tal lights mount |> too low to be useful). I mount my headlights on my fork. There are several advantages over the more standard handlebar mount. First, they don't put light in my eyes. Secondly, by putting them low, they let road bumps to cast shadows, which makes it easier to see them. I use either the U-bolts for a blackburn low-rider rack or standard U-bolts mounted on the fork. Two headlights has the further advantage that if one of them goes out you don't have to try to replace a small bulb in the dark. |> 4) Battery capacity. For high power lights, you need a gelled electrolyte |> battery from 2.6 AH (1.8 hours with 14watt headlamp and 3 watt strobe) |> to 6.5 AH (4.6 hours). These are of reasonable weight and cost. This is very optimistic. Battery AH are rated when drawing current slowly (10 hour discharge rate), and at 70 F. Drawing a battery down faster and at a lower temperature both decrease the power available. One rule of thumb is to expect half the rated energy from a battery used in bike lights. Despite my differences with this design, I'll get a copy of his plans to see what else I can learn. He seems to have some good ideas in there. --David Wittenberg From keith@hpfcdj.HP.COM Tue Dec 18 15:42:59 1990 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!wuarchive!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpfcso!hpfcdj!keith From: keith@hpfcdj.HP.COM (John Keith) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Where to find gel-cell batteries for bike lights Message-ID: <18090297@hpfcdj.HP.COM> Date: 11 Dec 90 14:46:04 GMT References: <11573@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> Organization: Hewlett Packard -- Fort Collins, CO Lines: 16 And yet another source for batteries is: Mouser Electronics (located in Texas) 1-800-992-9943 to get a catalog 1-800-346-6873 for orders They also have a 12V, 6.5 AH gel cell (Panasonic) with the following specs: size: 5.95"x2.56"x3.86" weight: 5.7 pounds price: $29.90 (cheaper than All Electronics by ~$7) They have several nice 6V units as well. John Keith From koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM Tue Dec 18 15:43:37 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpfcso!hpfcdc!koren From: koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Steve Koren) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Where to find gel-cell batteries for bike lights Message-ID: <7910055@hpfcdc.HP.COM> Date: 15 Dec 90 16:53:08 GMT References: <11573@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co. Lines: 32 Here's another source for gel-cell batteries: American Design Components 1-800-776-3700 815 Fairvue Ave PO Box 220 Fairview, NJ 07022 They have a good selection of gel-cell batteries ranging from 2.5 AH up to 20 AH. I bought 2 of their 10 AH batteries to use in a lighting system. Here's a small table listing some interesting specs about several of their batteries. I generally left out all the batteries less than 6 or so AH. The AH/in^3 and WH/in^3 numbers I synthesized from the others; hopefully I haven't made any calculation mistakes. The catalog does not list weights. DCV AH L H D in^3 AH/in^3 WH/in^3 $ US -------------------------------------------------------------------- 6 8 3 7/8 4 5/8 2 1/8 38.138 0.2097 1.2585 12.95 6 9.5 5 1/2 4 1/8 2 45.385 0.2093 1.2559 14.95 6 10 5 7/8 3 3/4 2 44.063 0.2269 1.3616 14.95 6 20 6 1/16 4 7/8 3 1/4 95.053 0.2104 1.2624 17.95 12 5 10 5/8 3 2 63.750 0.0784 0.9411 15.95 D 12 5 5 3/8 3 4 64.500 0.0775 0.9302 15.95 D 12 8 5 7/8 3 5/8 3 7/8 82.525 0.0969 1.1632 19.95 12 15 7 6 1/2 2 7/8 130.813 0.1146 1.3760 29.95 - steve From koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM Tue Dec 18 15:43:53 1990 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpfcso!hpfcdc!koren From: koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Steve Koren) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: lighting systems, correction Message-ID: <7910056@hpfcdc.HP.COM> Date: 15 Dec 90 17:04:15 GMT References: <1990Dec12.174802.15509@riacs.edu> Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co. Lines: 18 > 4) Battery capacity. For high power lights, you need a gelled electrolyte > battery from 2.6 AH (1.8 hours with 14watt headlamp and 3 watt strobe) > to 6.5 AH (4.6 hours). These are of reasonable weight and cost. One interesting thing about gel cells is that they don't generally like to be discharged all the way; doing so will reduce their life. What I've usually heard recommended is that they be routinely discharged to only half of their rated capacity. Doing so would give: (2.6AH / 2) / ( ( 14W + 3W) / 12V) = 0.92 hrs (6.5AH / 2) / ( ( 14W + 3W) / 12V) = 2.3 hrs What I don't know is exactly how fast deep discharging will "kill" the batteries. If they will still last for, say, 500 cycles, perhaps it would be worth it to ignore that and use the full AH capacity. - steve From weverka@boulder.Colorado.EDU Fri Jan 11 17:21:26 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!csn!news From: weverka@boulder.Colorado.EDU (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: bike light Message-ID: <1991Jan11.202255.510@csn.org> Date: 11 Jan 91 20:22:55 GMT Sender: news@csn.org Reply-To: weverka@snoopy.Colorado.EDU (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: snoopy.colorado.edu I wanted a bright light since I've seen so many that could barely give viewing when pointed straight down. The bike shops in town all want about $100 for a NiCad driven bright light (their brightest) and I didn't want to pay thaqt much so... I bought a pair of Auto bumper mount lights, halogen, with a 10 x 5 degree beam at Kmart for $14. got the smallest motorcycle battery I could find for $28 ( 10 RadioShack high capacity NiCads would have been $80) And now I'm the envy of all the bicycle commutors in town. At a moderate clip I've got it (only mounted one of the lamps) pointed out to light up the entire lane about 3 seconds ahead of me. My light compares favorably to that of a passing car. And should somebody steal my light, I've got a spare. If your looking for a good light and don't mind the weight, it's a good way to go. -Ted From koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM Tue Jan 29 23:15:40 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!usc!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpfcso!hpfcdc!koren From: koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Steve Koren) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Re: POWERFUL bike light Message-ID: <7910062@hpfcdc.HP.COM> Date: 20 Jan 91 17:52:33 GMT References: <1991Jan17.225029.17232@csn.org> Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co. Lines: 23 > >This is interesting! How much does it weigh and what are your charging >procedures? > > Since there has beed moderate interest here is the follow up... > The battery is about 2 pounds(I am guessing). It is duct taped to the > verticle bar on the frame (It was initially a temparary set up but seems to > work just fine) The battery is a 5 ampere-hour one and the light draws > a little over 4 amps. I suspect I should top up the battery daily. For FYI, another good source for batteries is "American Design Components" - 1-800-776-3700 outside of NJ. They have betteries ranging from 0.8AH to 20AH in either 6 or 12 V. I have two 6V @ 10 AH batteries, stored in about 1/2 of a (hard sided) rack pack. They work very well; I run a 35W headlight and 6W tailight with them. The address of ADC is: American Design Components 815 Fairiew Ave P.O. Box 520 Fairview, NJ, 07022 - steve (koren@hpmoria) From hammonds@riacs.edu Wed Jan 30 00:13:55 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!agate!shelby!riacs!hammonds From: hammonds@riacs.edu (Steve Hammond) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> Date: 29 Jan 91 19:13:38 GMT Sender: news@riacs.edu Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center Lines: 35 I recently bought the Brite Light lighting system with the 6W bulb. It is a nice system, lightweight, and adequate for the roads I have to commute. The bulbs are supposed to be good for about 100 hours but mine burned out after about 10. Well, I tried to exchange it where I purchased it (the Wheelsmith in Palo Alto) and they said that Brite Light was just purchased by Specialized. The manager of the Wheelsmith said that he could not exchange the bulb until he was informed of the return policy from the new company. In the past it has been generous and he wanted to be sure. Well, I had the 800 number of Brite Lite and so I called. They said that they still stood behind the product 100% and would send me a bulb in the mail. This is not an isolated incident of their good service. I also broke the handle on the "quick release" and they sent a new part for that as well! I am not used to this great customer service and so I want to tell the net that the product is good and the service backing it up is super. In case anyone else has to contact Brite Lite for some reason... Brite Lite 1-800-342-7483 Steve H. -- Steve Hammond * Parallel Systems Division * RIACS * NASA Ames Research Center phone: (415)604-3962 e-mail:hammonds@riacs.edu From tom@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU Sat Feb 2 20:29:07 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!ucsd!ucbvax!agate!sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU!tom From: tom@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Holub) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <1991Jan30.202714.10552@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: 30 Jan 91 20:27:14 GMT References: <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator) Organization: ucb Lines: 45 In article <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> hammonds@riacs.edu (Steve Hammond) writes: >Well, I had the 800 number of Brite Lite and so I called. >They said that they still stood behind the product 100% >and would send me a bulb in the mail. This is not >an isolated incident of their good service. I also broke >the handle on the "quick release" and they sent a new part >for that as well! I am not used to this great customer service >and so I want to tell the net that the product is good and >the service backing it up is super. I'm glad that you feel that the customer service is good. In my experience, however, the product has some major flaws for a light set that costs ~$150. The worst flaw is the quick-releases; not only are they unnecessary, they are made from cheap plastic, and poorly made at that. The amount you have to tighten the bolt to get enough tension to keep the light fixed to the bar also makes the quick release almost impossible to close. This, combined with the fact that it's made out of plastic, makes it very easy to break the lever. Also, since it's a quick-release system, I need to take it with me when I park the bike at Berkeley. When you put the light system in a typical pannier, and bounce it around a typical amount, the bolts come off of the quick releases, and you have to hunt around in the bottom of the bag for them. I've also had some problems with the wiring. If you mount the battery pack under the seat, as it works loose the edge of the pack crushes the wire between itself and the seat post. I had to snip the wires, resolder them, and put mounds of electrical tape around them to solve this one. Also, if you have a Blackburn rack the pack mounts nicely to it; much more nicely than it mounts under the seat. Finally, there's a problem with the headlight ground. The ground runs from a copper plate below the bulb to the copper-lined mounting hole. The steel bolt is supposed to go through this, and this is supposed to conduct the current to a steel eyelet around the bolt, which is attached to the wire. Unfortunately, as the steel corrodes, its ability to carry current diminishes, and the light gets dimmer and flickers over bumps, eventually going out completely. The battery pack and charging system are good, but if I had shopped around more, I wouldn't have bought a Brite Lite. I'm thinking seriously of keeping the battery and mounting a different headlight and taillight to stem some of the problems. But having to cannibalize a $150 lightset is not a sign of a good product. -Tom From david@wmms.UUCP Sat Feb 2 20:29:50 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!gatech!galbp!bagend!wmms!david From: david@wmms.UUCP (David R. Mayne) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Summary: another unhappy customer Message-ID: <265@wmms.UUCP> Date: 31 Jan 91 15:31:31 GMT References: <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> <1991Jan30.202714.10552@agate.berkeley.edu> Lines: 51 In article <1991Jan30.202714.10552@agate.berkeley.edu>, tom@sandstorm.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Holub) writes: > In article <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> hammonds@riacs.edu (Steve Hammond) writes: > >Well, I had the 800 number of Brite Lite and so I called. > >They said that they still stood behind the product 100% > >and would send me a bulb in the mail. This is not > >an isolated incident of their good service. I also broke > >the handle on the "quick release" and they sent a new part > >for that as well! I am not used to this great customer service > >and so I want to tell the net that the product is good and > >the service backing it up is super. > > I'm glad that you feel that the customer service is good. In my > experience, however, the product has some major flaws for a light > set that costs ~$150. The worst flaw is the quick-releases; I have been through 2 sets of quick releases, and I had to pay for both replacement sets (the operator at Brite Lite's 800 number laughed at me when I ask for a warranty replacement within the first year of purchase). A set of these (cheaply made , IMHO) plastic quick releases cost me $25 - not cheap in price. I ,too, have also had problems with the wiring - after only having the unit for two weeks, one of the connectors to the battery inside the battery cover came loose, making contact with the other connector when removing the battery and light from the bike. Unwittingly, I plugged the battery into the recharger, and in about five minutes, I had 1 cooked recharger. (Brite light did replace the recharger for free this time, and put a little solder on the battery connections to *assure* that it would not happen again.) Now that my unit is just out of warranty, the battery apparantly fails. Not wanting to pay Brite Lite's ridiculous price for replacement batteries (approximately $50), I opted to purchase the identical Panasonic lead acid battery from DigiKey for approximately $17 shipped. After making just one short trip with the new battery, I plugged the new battery in the recharger, only to find that the new battery would not work after an 8 hour charge. Checking the recharger unit, I noticed a bulge in the plastic around the transformer, indicating damage to the charger (I do not have access to any testing equipment, unfortunately). I suspect that my charger has drained both my new and old batteries of their charge. Can anyone suggest a source or specifications for a replacement charger to work with the 2.5 Ah Pansonic lead acid battery ? (I have not checked with Brite Lite yet, as I suspect that the price would be high, given their apparent price gouging on batteries) Needless to say, I am unimpressed with the quality of the Brite Lite, and would recommend that potential buyers look at other systems for that price. -- David R. Mayne 1364 Normandy Dr. NE Atlanta, GA 30306 david@wmms (404) 876-0943 ...!gatech!bagend!wmms!david From dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no Sat Feb 2 20:30:11 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!ugle.unit.no!DAHLS@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO From: dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <0094395F.26EE39C0@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO> Date: 1 Feb 91 20:08:59 GMT References: <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> <1991Jan30.202714.10552@agate.berkeley.edu>,<265@wmms.UUCP> Sender: news@ugle.unit.no Reply-To: dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes) Organization: The University of Trondheim, Norway Lines: 39 In article <265@wmms.UUCP>, david@wmms.UUCP (David R. Mayne) writes: >I have been through 2 sets of quick releases, and I had to pay for >both replacement sets (the operator at Brite Lite's 800 number laughed >at me when I ask for a warranty replacement within the first year of >purchase). A set of these (cheaply made , IMHO) plastic quick releases >cost me $25 - not cheap in price. I have a NightSun Team-Issue with three quick releases made of metal (two for the light unit and one for the switch). It's realy easy and fast for mount/dismount and I have not (yet) had any problem with the quick releases. The NightSun TI is a little bit more expensive than Brite Lite, but I think it's worth it. I like the NightSun TI. >I ,too, have also had problems with the wiring - after only having the unit for >two weeks, one of the connectors to the battery inside the battery cover >came loose, making contact with the other connector when removing the >battery and light from the bike. Unwittingly, I plugged the battery into >the recharger, and in about five minutes, I had 1 cooked recharger. >(Brite light did replace the recharger for free this time, and put a little >solder on the battery connections to *assure* that it would not happen >again.) The battery pack for the Team-Issue is NiCad sealed waterbottle back, which make it easy to mount/dismount. But I discovered that water can get into the bottle and stay there. In logn term this can cause damage to the wires inside the bottle (on top of the sealed pack). I used silicon rubber to make the water bottle water proof. >Needless to say, I am unimpressed with the quality of the Brite Lite, and would >recommend that potential buyers look at other systems for that price. I go for NightSun Team-Issue! Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes, The University of Trondheim, The Norwegian Institute of Technology, Division of Physical Electronics Please note: The address in the header is incorrect. My correct e-mail address is "dahl-stamnes@elab-runit.sintef.no" * "Let chaos storm! Let cloud shapes swarm! I wait for form." * - - - - o o o o - - - - From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Sat Feb 2 21:09:41 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Brite Lite Customer Service Keywords: lights Message-ID: <19667@shlump.nac.dec.com> Date: 31 Jan 91 16:53:53 GMT Sender: newsdaemon@shlump.nac.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@ultra.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 22 I've been having some problems with my Brite Lite system. I called Brite Lite, and their customer service rep told me that I had put too large a bulb in the lamp (The HS3 head lamps can only handle a 4.2 Watt or smaller bulb). A Brite Lite dealer told me that that lamp would handle a 6 Watt bulb. They are replacing both of my lamps with new XE100 lamps which can handle bulbs up to 10 Watts. I am quite pleased with their response, and recommend their equipment both because it works well and because they stand behind it. It is particularly nice that they are replacing something which I broke when they could have blamed me and the dealer for the problem. Incidentally, Specialized has bought Brite Lite, and so it will no longer be possible for individuals to order directly form Brite Lite. Specialized has a $100 min. order for shops. --David Wittenberg From mab@duvel.princeton.edu Sat Feb 2 21:15:10 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ncar!gatech!udel!princeton!cs!duvel!mab From: mab@duvel.princeton.edu (Matt Blaze) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Brite Lite Comments Summary: Not great, but not awful, either Keywords: pros, cons Message-ID: Date: 1 Feb 91 05:34:16 GMT Sender: news@cs.Princeton.EDU Lines: 54 I recently got a brite lite "performance system" (6 watt halogen broad-beam headlight, tail light). My overall impression is that it's a tad overpriced, but works mostly as advertised. In particular: - As another poster pointed out, the quick release is less that adequate. It's cheap plastic, not all that easy to install or remove, and does not seem to stand up to repeated use. The thing is designed to attach to the handlebar (for the front) or the seat stem (for the rear); there is no (obvious to me at least) way to attach the tail light to the back of a Blackburn rack using the quick release. Also, they provide "quick release" cable fasteners to hold the wires to the frame; these are practically useless, as they fall off quite easily. The manual makes reference to velcro loops for holding the wires in place, but they included these useless plastic clips instead. According to the manual, they will be happy to sell me permanent mounting brackets that address these problems. - The contact point for the front bulb was bent a bit out of shape and failed to make reliable contact. A little prying with the tweezers fixed this, once I figured out the problem. Remains to be seen whether this will become a chronic problem, however. - The beam pattern of the headlight is very reasonable, and the six Watts is more than enough for dark roads, tho not quite enough for faster riding on brighter but unevenly lit streets (which is where you need bright light to fill in the dark patches). The rear light has proven adequate so far, in that I haven't been rear-ended by any trucks yet. On a side note, I ride about 5 miles in the dark each day as part of my normal commute. When I ride at night with a reasonably bright set of lights, cars seem to be more mindful of my existence and respectful of my right to the road than they are in the daytime. (Maybe they mistake me for a motorcycle or something and don't realize that I'm just a damn bicycle until it's too late to do me any harm). - The battery pack attaches easily to a Blackburn rack with two velcro closures. I've noticed a tendency for the on/off switch to change state if I hit a large bump (such as a curb). Since I try to avoid doing this, and the light helps me to that end, this is not too often a problem. It has happened to me twice so far, and sure makes for an exciting ride. The problem is minimized by making sure the battery is held tightly to the frame or rack. - The on/off switch has to be 'on' in order to charge the battery. Once I discovered that I hadn't charged the battery because of this. It would also be nice to have some sort of visual indication that the battery is charging, such as an LED. All in all, I concur with the poster who said he/she wouldn't get the brite lite given an opportunity to do it over again. On the other hand, I'm not about to return it. It does what it says it does, although the design is not what I'd expect for the money. -matt From dimitry@skylonda.Eng.Sun.COM Tue Feb 5 18:08:38 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!decwrl!sun-barr!newstop!exodus!dimitry From: dimitry@skylonda.Eng.Sun.COM (Dimitry Struve) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <7293@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: 4 Feb 91 20:51:39 GMT References: <1991Jan29.191338.12885@riacs.edu> <1991Jan30.202714.10552@agate.berkeley.edu> <265@wmms.UUCP> Sender: news@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca. Lines: 13 I bought my wife a BriteLite for commuting a few months ago. While the beam and brightness are excellent, the design and quality seem poor. The over-center quick release clamps look like they will break soon; the whole grounding scheme is totally Mickey Mouse; and the velcro strap on the battery pack does not seem designed for any seat or seat post mounting _I_ can imagine. On the other hand, nothing's gone wrong. I'm going to replace my Cateye Halogen with the BriteLite, temporarily, to see if I get more respect from car drivers. :) -Dimitry From aritoxm@accucx.cc.ruu.nl Thu Feb 14 14:38:13 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!spool.mu.edu!uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!ruuinf!accucx!aritoxm From: aritoxm@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Henk Verhaar) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: THE Touring Bike Message-ID: <1250@accucx.cc.ruu.nl> Date: 14 Feb 91 10:50:48 GMT Article-I.D.: accucx.1250 References: <1991Feb10.182726.24559@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <3420013@hpcc01.HP.COM> Reply-To: aritoxm@accucx.UUCP (Henk Verhaar) Organization: Academic Computer Centre Utrecht, The Netherlands Lines: 23 In article <3420013@hpcc01.HP.COM> brooksp@hpcc01.HP.COM (Peter Brooks) writes: >what, no lights? I'd recommend one of the Bright Light series >for a really long ride. And I'd recommend the CatEye HL500 with a (sort of) TurboCat booster. The turbocat consists of a lead-acid sealed battery, a more wattage halogen bulb, and some needed hardware (including a constant voltage charger for the battery. After having seen an advertorial for the turbocat, and having two HL500's I decided to make a 'turbocat' myself. Bought a 6V3Ah (Hitachi) lead-acid cell, a 6V4W halogen bulb and a constant voltage power supply, and some wire and connectors (medium duty audio types), took out my soldering iron and set to work. The result? A wonderful, real lighting system for a reasonable price! I am quite pleased with it! Henk Verhaar the local Cannondale boy (My daytime employer doesn't know a thing about bicycles and my bicycles don't know about my employer so no global disclaimers. Sorry though) From howard@urchin.fidonet.org Thu Feb 14 15:01:37 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!menudo.uh.edu!lobster!urchin!howard From: howard@urchin.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org> Date: 10 Feb 91 15:37:58 GMT Organization: Urchin (Two Wheelers) - Unix <--> Fido gateway, Houston,TX Lines: 84 In an article of <31 Jan 91 15:31:31 GMT>, david@wmms.UUCP (David R. Mayne) writes: DR>I ,too, have also had problems with the wiring - after only having the DR>unit for two weeks, one of the connectors to the battery inside the My homemade version has had that same problem. The gel cell batteries weren't really designed for use on bicycles or any other vehicle that is subject to vibration. Those small connectors just aren't as sturdy as the ones used on motorcycle batteries. DR>(Brite light did replace the recharger for free this time, and put a DR>little solder on the battery connections to *assure* that it would not DR>happen again.) Yeh, when you do that the battery connection often fails at the battery. I have also had gel cells develop internal breaks that made them worthless. my conclusion is that this type of battery is not really suitable for use in bicycle lighting. Ni cads are maybe a little better, but I'm using an alternator-driven light these days (Union). DR>Now that my unit is just out of warranty, the battery apparantly fails. DR>Not wanting to pay Brite Lite's ridiculous price for replacement DR>batteries (approximately $50), I opted to purchase the identical DR>Panasonic lead acid battery from DigiKey for approximately $17 shipped. That's a good source. DR>After making just one short trip with the new battery, I plugged the DR>new battery in the recharger, only to find that the new battery would DR>not work after an 8 hour charge. DR>Checking the recharger unit, I noticed a bulge in the plastic around DR>the transformer, indicating damage to the charger (I do not have DR>access to any testing equipment, unfortunately). I suspect that my DR>charger has drained both my new and old batteries of their charge. I suggest that you probably plugged the new battery in backwards. Then when you connected the charger, instead of charging the battery -- putting 8 volts across it -- you put 8 volts in series with it and burned out the charger (which obviously wasn't fused). Fortuneately, the charger didn't cause your new battery to explode! DR>Can anyone suggest a source or specifications for a replacement DR>charger to work with the 2.5 Ah Pansonic lead acid battery ? Sure, 8 volts at 250 milliamps should do the trick, preferably with enough internal resistance to limit the current to 250 milliamps. DigiKey should have such a charger for less that $15, but while you're buying the charger, pick up a cheap multimeter from them so that you don't repeat you past problems. DR>Needless to say, I am unimpressed with the quality of the Brite Lite, I look at the Brite Lite as more of a marketing venture than a product. Here they have taken a Union Frondenberg headlight and taillight, taked on a gel cell, plastic handlebar mount, switch and bag and increased the price by five times. Since you can buy a complete Union Generator Lighting Set from Performance cycles for $29.95, and since this set works more reliably with its alternator than the $150 Brite Lite, why buy the Brite Lite? Are you racing at night? Would the loss of about 1 mph really upset your night riding? If the answers to these questions is no, then I suggest the Union light generator (alternater) light sets. Union Frondenberg makes a number of different light sets. The one I am using now has an alternater mounted on the side of the rear wheel. They also have one that mounts the alternater on the side of the front wheel and one that mounts it on the bottom bracket. If you must use a battery, Union makes one that is almost identical to Brite Lite, but I suspect it has all the same problems. JY> The battery pack for the Team-Issue is NiCad sealed waterbottle back, JY> which make it easy to mount/dismount. Yes, ni cads are a better choice for bicycle lighting than gel cells, but they have problems at low temperatures. ____________________________________________________________ Howard Gerber o uhnix1!lobster!urchin!howard Houston, Texas !_ /-_ ames!limbic!lobster!urchin!howard WB5YWS ....(_)>(_) uunet!nuchat!lobster!urchin!howard -- Howard Gerber - via FidoNet node 1:106/88 UUCP: ...!uunet!nuchat!lobster!urchin!howard INTERNET: howard@urchin.fidonet.org From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Thu Feb 14 15:02:16 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!rust.zso.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!sousa.enet.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <808@sousa.enet.dec.com> Date: 13 Feb 91 16:20:59 GMT References: <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org> Sender: newsa@sousa.enet.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 78 In article <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org>, howard@urchin.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) writes: |> Path: sousa.enet.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!bloom-beac con!mintaka!think.com!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio o-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!menudo.uh.edu!lobster!urchin!howard |> From: howard@urchin.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) |> Newsgroups: rec.bicycles |> Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light |> Message-ID: <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org> |> Date: 10 Feb 91 15:37:58 GMT |> Organization: Urchin (Two Wheelers) - Unix <--> Fido gateway, Houston,TX |> Lines: 84 |> |> In an article of <31 Jan 91 15:31:31 GMT>, david@wmms.UUCP (David R. Mayne) writes: |> |> DR>I ,too, have also had problems with the wiring - after only having the |> DR>unit for two weeks, one of the connectors to the battery inside the |> |> My homemade version has had that same problem. The gel cell batteries |> weren't really designed for use on bicycles or any other vehicle that is |> subject to vibration. Those small connectors just aren't as sturdy as |> the ones used on motorcycle batteries. |> I'm now using the connectors from car trailer lights as my electrical connectors. We'll see how that works. I try to put very little force on the battery connectors, so they won't break free from the battery. After the better part of a year with one battery, it's still going strong. The Brite Lite sack hanging from the seat helps to isolate the battery from road shock. (The problem with it is that the wire runs under the front corner of the battery, and wears there. Put a dab of silicone glue there to prevent the wire from rubbing against the battery.) |> |> DR>Can anyone suggest a source or specifications for a replacement |> DR>charger to work with the 2.5 Ah Pansonic lead acid battery ? |> |> Sure, 8 volts at 250 milliamps should do the trick, preferably with enough |> internal resistance to limit the current to 250 milliamps. DigiKey should |> have such a charger for less that $15, but while you're buying the charger, |> pick up a cheap multimeter from them so that you don't repeat you past |> problems. |> NO! This is too much voltage and not enough current. The Panasonic 6 Volt batteries (which Brite Lite uses) should be charged at around 7.3 V (check this value, but it's certainly not 8 v) for quick charge, and at 6.8-6.9V for standby charge. Those voltages are printed on the batteries. 250 ma won't charge the battery fully overnight. It's a 4.5 AH battery, and there is some inefficency in charging (say 20%) so you're adding 200 mah per hour, or 23 hours for a full charge. As long as the charger has regulated voltage, you want about 750 ma to charge overnight. |> I look at the Brite Lite as more of a marketing venture than a product. Here |> they have taken a Union Frondenberg headlight and taillight, taked on a gel |> cell, plastic handlebar mount, switch and bag and increased the price by |> five times. Since you can buy a complete Union Generator Lighting Set from |> Performance cycles for $29.95, and since this set works more reliably with |> its alternator than the $150 Brite Lite, why buy the Brite Lite? |> This is a bit harsh. It's useful to be able to buy one box with all the parts in it. Also, Brite Lite is now using a different headlight which seems to be better than the Union. I have found that generator systems just couldn't provide enough light for me to ride comfortably on unlit roads on dark nights. I'm now up to two 6 Watt headlights, and that's enough for about 15 or 17 mph. Above that it gets dicey. |> Howard Gerber - via FidoNet node 1:106/88 |> UUCP: ...!uunet!nuchat!lobster!urchin!howard |> INTERNET: howard@urchin.fidonet.org |> --David Wittenberg From dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no Thu Feb 14 15:02:49 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!ugle.unit.no!DAHLS@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO From: dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <0094438B.09328CC0@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO> Date: 14 Feb 91 18:48:18 GMT Article-I.D.: ELABA.0094438B.09328CC0 References: <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org>,<808@sousa.enet.dec.com> Sender: news@ugle.unit.no Reply-To: dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes) Organization: The University of Trondheim, Norway Lines: 36 In article <808@sousa.enet.dec.com>, wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com writes: >In article <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org>, howard@urchin.fidonet.org (Howard >Gerber) writes: >|> >|> DR>Can anyone suggest a source or specifications for a replacement >|> DR>charger to work with the 2.5 Ah Pansonic lead acid battery ? >|> >|> Sure, 8 volts at 250 milliamps should do the trick, preferably with enough >|> internal resistance to limit the current to 250 milliamps. DigiKey should >|> have such a charger for less that $15, but while you're buying the charger, >|> pick up a cheap multimeter from them so that you don't repeat you past >|> problems. >|> >NO! This is too much voltage and not enough current. The Panasonic 6 Volt >batteries (which Brite Lite uses) should be charged at around 7.3 V >(check this value, but it's certainly not 8 v) for >quick charge, and at 6.8-6.9V for standby charge. Those voltages are >printed on the batteries. 250 ma won't charge the battery fully overnight. >It's a 4.5 AH battery, and there is some inefficency in charging (say 20%) >so you're adding 200 mah per hour, or 23 hours for a full charge. As long >as the charger has regulated voltage, you want about 750 ma to charge >overnight. On my commuting bike I got a 6 V 4 Ah lead-acid battery (for motorbikes). I charge it while I'm on job. I use a power supply with current limiter to charge the battery. I set the current limiter to 500 mA and the output voltage to max 7.35 Volt. After about 7 hours, the battery is fully recharged. The current has droped belove the limit (down to about 200 mA). Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes, The University of Trondheim, The Norwegian Institute of Technology, Division of Physical Electronics Please note: The address in the header is incorrect. My correct e-mail address is "dahl-stamnes@elab-runit.sintef.no" * "Let chaos storm! Let cloud shapes swarm! I wait for form." * - - - - o o o o - - - - From hoffmann@athena.mit.edu Fri Feb 15 12:37:00 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-picayune.mit.edu!athena.mit.edu!hoffmann From: hoffmann@athena.mit.edu (Ron M. Hoffmann) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <1991Feb14.211244.20497@athena.mit.edu> Date: 14 Feb 91 21:12:44 GMT References: <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org> <808@sousa.enet.dec.com> Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system) Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 41 Lots of other text deleted for brevity: >|> DR>Can anyone suggest a source or specifications for a replacement >|> DR>charger to work with the 2.5 Ah Pansonic lead acid battery ? >|> >|> Sure, 8 volts at 250 milliamps should do the trick, preferably with enough >|> internal resistance to limit the current to 250 milliamps. DigiKey should >|> have such a charger for less that $15, but while you're buying the charger, >|> pick up a cheap multimeter from them so that you don't repeat you past >|> problems. >|> >NO! This is too much voltage and not enough current. The Panasonic 6 Volt >batteries (which Brite Lite uses) should be charged at around 7.3 V >(check this value, but it's certainly not 8 v) for >quick charge, and at 6.8-6.9V for standby charge. Those voltages are >printed on the batteries. 250 ma won't charge the battery fully overnight. >It's a 4.5 AH battery, and there is some inefficency in charging (say 20%) >so you're adding 200 mah per hour, or 23 hours for a full charge. As long >as the charger has regulated voltage, you want about 750 ma to charge >overnight. > > Uh, look at what he said: it's a 2.5AH battery and for "standard charge" rate batteries, you charge at the .1 rate=250mA. The term "overnight" refers to the 10-hour charge rate when you look at battery specs. The voltage is irrelevant here. You use a power supply with a voltage high enough so you can get 250mA into the battery, preferably through a resistor (the internal resistance of the power supply counts here; an unregulated supply's voltage will vary in some proportion to the current drawn from it; most plug-in wall chargers are unregulated). Voltage is an issue *only* when doing float charging (you need a battery designed for this or you severely degrade it's life by float charging). It's always amazing how much folklore there is on the topic of charging batteries :-) -Ron From evan@plxsun.uucp Fri Feb 15 12:37:29 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!sun-barr!newstop!sun!plx!evan From: evan@plxsun.uucp (Evan Bigall) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: Date: 14 Feb 91 18:34:40 GMT References: <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org> <808@sousa.enet.dec.com> Sender: usenet@plx.UUCP Organization: Plexus Software Inc. Lines: 26 In-reply-to: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com's message of 13 Feb 91 16:20:59 GMT In article <808@sousa.enet.dec.com> wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com writes: I have found that generator systems just couldn't provide enough light for me to ride comfortably on unlit roads on dark nights. I'm now up to two 6 Watt headlights, and that's enough for about 15 or 17 mph. Above that it gets dicey. Wow, thats a lot of light. I have had all the same problems as everyone else with their Bright Lites. I am on my second battery, and my second set of mounts. I have also gone in and soldered everything down to prevent flickering. But, when its working it works really well. I like to ride the mountains at night, and I have no problem descending windy mountain roads at 30+ with just the Bright Lite. For me the easy on easy off is important, because I have two bikes which are my sole means of transportation. Road bike to work, mtn bike with panniers to the store for dinner. Having a quality light set that goes from one to the other in a couple of minutes is important. I have also taken the Bright Lite on super hectic mountain bike rides, and now that its all soldered together it holds up great. If I had it all to do over again, I might try to roll my own, but the Bright Lite really is pretty good. /Evan From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Sat Feb 23 18:34:06 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!rust.zso.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!sousa.enet.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: specialized buys brite light Message-ID: <814@sousa.enet.dec.com> Date: 15 Feb 91 18:55:47 GMT References: <1991Feb14.211244.20497@athena.mit.edu> <7220.27B5E7DC@urchin.fidonet.org> <808@sousa.enet.dec.com> Sender: newsa@sousa.enet.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 32 In article <1991Feb14.211244.20497@athena.mit.edu>, hoffmann@athena.mit.edu (Ron M. Hoffmann) writes: The term "overnight" refers to the 10-hour |> charge rate when you look at battery specs. The voltage |> is irrelevant here. You use a power supply with a voltage |> high enough so you can get 250mA into the battery, |> preferably through a resistor (the internal resistance |> of the power supply counts here; an unregulated supply's |> voltage will vary in some proportion to the current |> drawn from it; most plug-in wall chargers are unregulated). |> |> Voltage is an issue *only* when doing float charging |> (you need a battery designed for this or you severely |> degrade it's life by float charging). |> |> It's always amazing how much folklore there is on the |> topic of charging batteries :-) |> |> -Ron |> He's trying to charge a Gel Cell battery. Gel Cells are designed to be charged by a voltage source. NiCads should be charged with a current source. Panasonic prints the charging voltage (both float and cycle) on their gel cell batteries. They probably expect you to pay attention. --David Wittenberg From grande@cbnewsd.att.com Sat Feb 23 18:41:26 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!uunet!wuarchive!rex!samsung!emory!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!grande From: grande@cbnewsd.att.com (brad.l.grande) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Lights for Commuting? Summary: Build your own? Keywords: lights, advice, experiences, REI, Nashbar, Performance, Brite Light Message-ID: <1991Feb16.181825.4037@cbnewsd.att.com> Date: 16 Feb 91 18:18:25 GMT References: <7910063@hpfcdc.HP.COM> <1991Feb15.164359.5931@rice.edu> <122647.8550@timbuk.cray.com> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 90 In article <122647.8550@timbuk.cray.com>, kunau@eiger.cray.com (Tim Kunau) writes: > > Does anyone have experience/suggestions for someone (me) looking > for a good lighting system. > > My chief concerns are: > > - Throwing light, and lots of it. > - Do this for around two hours between charges. > - Robust enough to withstand commuting. > - I do not want to spend over $100. (Is this realistic?) > - Not involving a car battery, or weight equivalent. > - Either easily removeable, (to prevent theft), or > or some other "secure" installation. > > - Discovering whether or not such a product exists or > if I'll have to get creative. > > I have been to all the local shops, read the mags and the catalogs. > There are some interesting things out there. But nothing that looks > as though it could live through day-in day-out commuting. What do > you use? > Several of us have engineered and built our own lighting systems that surpass the performance of the commercially available units, cost only a portion and are rugged. You basicly need a light source, and power source and a way to mount it. The engineering that comes into play has to do with what parts you have available, or will need to find, What options you have as far as mounting them to your bike, and how long you need between charges. Unfortunately, power is not for free, unless you want to drive a generator, but gel-cells offer good power densities and rugged packaging. A few good sources of lights are automotive "fog" lights which usually contain their own mounting hardware, car replacement head lights which require custom mounting attention, and headlights for tractors. An automotive utility trailer tail light makes a good tail light. To figure out the battery, figure that you will get about 80% of the charge capacity between charges from a gel cell. To do some math assuming you have a 35Watt load and want 2 hours: At 12V and 35Watts, current draw is ~3Amps ((80%) * X (AmpHours))/(3 Amps) = 2Hours X = ((3 Amps) * ( 2 Hours))/(.8) X = 7.5 AmpHours A battery of this capacity will weigh about 8lbs. If your desire for 2 hours between charges assumes that you will only charge at home (i.e. your commute is approx. 1 hour each way), you can charge at work and at home (as I do) and use a battery of half the capacity (and half the weight). A charger is easy to build, just a DC power source and a current limiting resister. I keep my battery in a side pocket of my clothes bag and mounted a molex quick connect and a switch under my seat. Hence, I carry the battery into work and into my house so access to the charger is convienient. As for the weight factor, I view my commuter as a utility vehicle and weight is not a prime concern. The utilitarian benefit and the additional health benefit (both from riding and from carring the extra weight) far outway any small loss in performance. As for cost, again that depends on your needs and good fortune. The light will run you ~$10 - $40 depending on what you get. You may find something at a garage sale or a junk yard cheaper, also consider that fog lights and the such are sold in pairs. You and a friend can build similar systems and share the cost. The battery will run you about $25-$50. You may find something cheaper at a hamfest or surplus. A utility trailer tail light will run about $5. It won't be real pretty, but it will be very functional and rugged. Also, a lot of people will be really impressed by it (probably the same ones that would be entertianed by BICYCLING :-)) Brad Grande WB0OYX Another bike riding beer brewing kite flying amateur radio operator who still likes CD's! AT&T Bell Labs Naperville Illinausea att!iwtil!grande (708)-979-7853 From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Sat Feb 23 18:42:23 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!sousa.enet.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Lights for Commuting? Keywords: lights, advice, facts, Brite Light Message-ID: <823@sousa.enet.dec.com> Date: 19 Feb 91 21:09:38 GMT References: <1991Feb19.163718.18696@mips.mitek.com> <1991Feb15.164359.5931@rice.edu> <122647.8550@timbuk.cray.com> <1991Feb16.181825.4037@cbnewsd.att.com> Sender: newsa@sousa.enet.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 61 There's been a lot of statements about batteries in this string, and I'd like to add some facts. I have in front of me the spec sheets for the Panasonic LCR 6V4P and the LCR 6V6.5P gell cells. Comments in square brackets are my interpretations, the rest (including all the tables) are copied directly from the spec sheets. They are both 6v, the 6V4P is 4 AH [Brite Lite uses either this one or the 4.5 AH from the same series, I forget which], and the 6V6.5P is 6.5 AH. Those ratings are assuming you take 20 hours to discharge the battery. [If you use it faster (as bike lighting systems do) you must derate the battery as follows]: 6V6.5P 6V4P 6V6.5P (all at 25 C, 77 Farenheit) 20 Hours 4.0 AH 6.5 AH 10 Hours 3.7 AH 5.8 AH 5 Hours 3.3 AH 5.2 AH 1 Hour 2.7 AH 4.0 AH Capacity affected by Temperature 104 F (40 C) 102% This table was the same for both 77 F (25 C) 100 Batteries. 32 F ( 0 C) 85 -4 F (-20 C) 60 [This implies that if you discharge the battery in an hour, and ride at freezing (which I often do) you can expect about 55% of the rated power from a battery. (and looking at the curves described later, at the end of the hour the voltage would be around 5.5 and dropping fast.)] Weight: 6V4P approx. 1.83 lbs. (830 gm); 6V6.5P approx 2.54 lbs. (1150 gm) Self Discharge 77 F (25 C) Capacity after 3 month storage 91% Capacity after 6 month storage 82% Capacity after 12 month storage 64% Charge (Constant Voltage) Cycle: Voltage 7.25 ~ 7.45 (the same for both batteries, Float: Voltage 6.8 ~ 6.9 assumes 77F (25 C) temperature) The 6V6.5P lists initial charging current less than 2.6A, the 6V4P lists initial charging current less than 1.6A. [This last implies that there is no need for a current limiting resistor on a charger. Just regulate the voltage, and the battery won't demand too much current. (Anyway, most of us don't use chargers that are capable of putting out 2.6A.)] There are also discharge curves showing voltage vs. time at various current draws. For currents that discharge it in more than an hour, the voltage drops from 6.5V to 6.2 V in the first minute, and then drops slowly, staying above 6V for half the battery life, and then drops fairly sharply. --David Wittenberg From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Sat Feb 23 20:20:03 1991 Path: mintaka!bloom-beacon!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!sousa.enet.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Lights for Commuting? Keywords: belt beacons, Vista Lites, flashers Message-ID: <831@sousa.enet.dec.com> Date: 21 Feb 91 16:22:25 GMT References: <2081@metaphor.Metaphor.COM> <122647.8550@timbuk.cray.com> <28620044@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> Sender: newsa@sousa.enet.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@ultra.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 76 In article <2081@metaphor.Metaphor.COM>, walker@mishi.metaphor.com (John Walker) writes: |> |> In article <28620044@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Arnie Berger) writes: |> > |> >. . . |> >I wanted to point out one thing. You needn't bother with the tail light. There |> >are two excellent alternatives. I mounted a belt beacon on my back rack. It's |> >a blinking yellow light. Runs for months on a 9V battery. |> >... |> >Since you only need to warn drivers behind you, you don't really need a |> >powerful rear light. |> > |> |> I am curious if anyone else has had the same experience with belt beacons |> that I have in the last couple weeks. I had previously heard how much |> better they are than taillights at getting noticed, but had never |> actually seen one in use to judge its effectiveness for myself. I must |> admit that I was quite disappointed with the results. |> |> One evening, a group of us were driving from a volleyball match to get |> pizza when I first saw a belt beacon in use. It was rather fortunate |> for the person using it that I have reasonably quick reactions because |> when I did see the flashing light, I had to use my reactions to avoid |> running him over. When we all had arrived at the pizza place, two other |> people also commented that they had to swerve at the last second to avoid |> this cyclist. (Granted he was wearing dark clothes and had no other lights, |> but it was clear to me that the belt beacon alone was not enough in |> in this case). |> |> Later that week as I was cycling home from work, I noticed another |> cyclist with a belt beacon. Well, actually I noticed the cyclist and |> the headlight well before the belt beacon, even though I was approaching |> from behind. In this case, the yellow flash just seemed to blend |> with the yellowish ambient light from the streetlights. |> |> |> -- John |> |> |> ---------------------------------------------------- |> John Walker Metaphor Computer Systems |> walker@metaphor.com Mountain View, CA |> ---------------------------------------------------- |> I agree with John. About two weeks after I bought my VistaLite (red flashing light), I saw one in use in a well lit city street. It got my attention reasonably well (but I always notice bicylists long before my wife does, no matter which of us is driving), but I had a lot of trouble figuring out exactlywhere it was. It has often been reported that a moving flashing light is particularly difficult to locate, because you can't get both eyes on it to establish the distance before the light goes out. This seems consistent with my observations. The saftey guru of my bike club agrees with this, and always tells people to make sure that they have a taillight which is always on, with a flashing light optional. In most states a flashing light does not meet the legal requirements for a taillight. I currently use (and recommend) a vistalite (or BeltBeacon, but I think the VistaLite is better) in addition to a constantly on red taillight (I'm currently using the Brite Lite one, but am building my own out of the new high intensity GaAs LEDs which VistaLite uses. The new light will use less power for more light output than a lightbulb.) This system is legal in Mass. (where I live) since the red taillight meets the minimum requirements, and the law explicitly allows other devices to increase visibility. --David From tonya@hpldsla.sid.hp.com Sat Feb 23 20:28:42 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpcc05!hpldsla!tonya From: tonya@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Tony Arnerich) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Nightsun krypton lamps Message-ID: <3410028@hpldsla.sid.hp.com> Date: 19 Feb 91 19:44:20 GMT Article-I.D.: hpldsla.3410028 References: <0094442D.7F36EC20@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO> Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA Lines: 35 IN message-ID: <0094442D.7F36EC20@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO> dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes) writes: > I got my NightSun Team-Issure in december '90, and have been using it on > several nightrides. But after about 20 hours use, I thought that the > light from the low beam krypton lamp was bad. I dismount the lamp from > the unit, and I discovered that the lamp was black. > Have some of you who have a NightSun with krypton lamp, had the same > problem? Is this normal? I don't think so, I just have to believe that > there was a problem with this one lamp. I'm glad I bought 2 spare low > beam lamps with the unit :-). Only Halogen bulbs don't turn black. The only thing that separates krypton bulbs from $0.19 K-Mart flashlight bulbs in a construction sense is the choice of inert krypton gas instead of inert argon gas. The black coating on the inside of the bulb envelope is tungsten that has evaporated off the filament. Your new bulbs will do the same thing. I have heard it said (and my experience confirms this) that a non-halogen bulb will last approximately 2 to 5 changes (or charges) of batteries. Perhaps kryptons run hotter than argons, therefore the rate of tungsten evaporation is increased? My Maglite flashlight needed it's bulb replaced for the same reason at about the same hours as your Nightsun's, so I'd say your experience is typical. Halogens (also called quartz-halogens) use chlorine gas to recycle the evaporated tungsten back onto the filament. This makes the filament last longer and keeps the envelope clear. Another benefit is the ability to run the filament hotter, because you don't have to worry about the bulb turning black in 15 minutes. This gives a whiter light, with greater efficiency (~3% instead of ~2% in terms of watts of light vs. watts of electricity - most of the power goes into making infrared). tonya@hpldsla.sid.hp.com From jimh@hprnd.rose.hp.com Sat Mar 2 14:24:01 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!apple!bionet!uwm.edu!caen!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpda!hpcupt1!hprnd!jimh From: jimh@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Jim Haagen-Smit) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Nightsun krypton lamps Message-ID: <860093@hprnd.rose.hp.com> Date: 21 Feb 91 20:42:45 GMT References: <0094442D.7F36EC20@ELABA.ER.SINTEF.NO> Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division Lines: 31 In rec.bicycles, dahls@elab-runit.sintef.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes) writes: > several nightrides. But after about 20 hours use, I thought that the > light from the low beam krypton lamp was bad. I dismount the lamp from > the unit, and I discovered that the lamp was black. Krypton and Halogen lamps will blacken a bit with use. They will get black a lot quicker if they are ran at voltages below there spec. These lamps are designed to operate at a given temperture, above or below than design temperture and they will burn out quicker (and get dark faster). If they still work, you should keep using them. You might measure the voltage at the bulb and make sure all is fine. Since you have a Nightsun, would you be kind enough to read the manufacturer's name and numbers off of the bulbs and post it. I have just built up a Nightsun clone unit using a 20W MR15 bulb, but it is a bit much for a low beam. I could not find the number for the 10w bulb that nightsun uses. For people that want a real great light and don't want to build it up >from parts (cost me $20 for everything except batteries and charger), the Nightsun is worth buying. Jim Haagen-Smit Hewlett Packard Roseville Networks Roseville Calif. jimh@f.rose.hp.com 916 785-4589 From davevh@microsoft.UUCP Sat Mar 2 14:24:27 1991 Path: mintaka!mit-eddie!rutgers!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!davevh From: davevh@microsoft.UUCP (Dave VAN HORN) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Lights (Long) Message-ID: <70794@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 20 Feb 91 03:19:01 GMT Reply-To: davevh@microsoft.UUCP (Dave VAN HORN) Distribution: na Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 76 In article <122647.8550@timbuk.cray.com> kunau@eiger.cray.com (Tim Kunau) asks: >Does anyone have experience/suggestions for someone (me) looking >for a good lighting system. Like so many others, my quest for good lights led me to build my own. A brief description, from front to back: An auto headlight, 5 1/4" round (ie, 4 headlight size), 35w halogen ($5) in a chrome 'bucket' from a motorcycle junkyard ($7). The bucket is held by a mount made of 4 shelf brackets ($1.25) and a bungee cord ($1.50). On or off takes a few seconds with no tools and doesn't disturb the aim of the headlight. An automobile trailer wiring quick-connect connects the headlight to a pair of wires which run along the top tube. A similar quick-connect at the back connects to the battery box assembly. This length of wiring is the only part of the system that is permanently attached to the bike. The battery box is tied onto the rear rack with another bungee cord. The power switch is on the front of the box, the tail light ($2.50 at an auto parts store) is on the back. Inside is a 5.5 Amp-hr motorcycle battery ($25), the smallest I could find, and a lot of padding, leaving plenty of room for a larger battery. The 5.5 Ah battery gives 1 hour of runtime, adequate reserve for my 45 minute commute. Larger motorcycle batteries, up to 16 Ah, are readily available for a few dollars more. The charger is an auto battery charger with a (nominally) 2A 'low' setting. A full charge takes <6 hours. (I don't have an exact price on this. I got it years ago for my car, since the battery tended to fade when I didn't drive it for weeks at a time during the summer. My estimate is about $25). The switches and connecters are all standard auto-parts stuff and total about $10, including the stripping/crimping tool and 30 times more wire than I needed. All connecters are crimped & all terminals are screws; there is no soldering in the whole system. Total system weight is just under 10 lbs, most of it in the battery (6 lbs). With the exception of the headlight bucket from a motorcycle junkyard, every part is readily available. In fact, everything except the bucket came from just two stores in a nearby mall. Random Comments: Tons of light. I have no problem going 30+ down an unlit country road, nor have I had any instances of drivers appearing not to see me. And that's just on lo beam; I haven't hooked up the hi beam switch yet! The headlight has a 35w hi beam as well, which may be used by itself or in combination with the lo beam. A hi/lo switch will remove the conflict between aiming high enough for fast downhill and low enough to avoid annoying other drivers, but more important, it will also give me a second light to get home with if one should fail. A major goal for me was reliability. Brite-Lite warns that their headlight bulbs are rated at 100 hrs life, but that vibration will reduce that substantially. No lie; a previous poster noted that he got about 10 hours out of his. A GE catalog lists their auto headlight at 3,000 hrs. And when it does burn out, I can get a replacement _anywhere_, from 7 AM to 10 PM. A bicycle is a _very_ high vibration environment, especially at night. Even with a light, with no sidelighting to provide shadows you can't avoid bumps as well. Rain compounds the problem. My first attempts at a headlight mount fell prey to vibration-induced fatigue, while nuts throughout the system loosened. I resorted to locknuts and lock washers to keep things in place and have had no problems since. The headlight mount was the hardest part; I went through 8 prototypes before I arrived at this one. I have had no failures of any components except my own previous attempts at mounts. Motorcycle batteries are designed for this high current and fairly deep cycle, but don't forget to leave a long vent tube to guide the gases released out of the battery box and away from the bike. Otherwise they will corrode any nearby metal, including electrical connections and your rack itself. Dave Van Horn uunet!microsoft!davevh From grande@cbnewsd.att.com Sat Mar 2 14:43:25 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!grande From: grande@cbnewsd.att.com (brad.l.grande) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Need a little advice on lights Message-ID: <1991Feb27.145404.20370@cbnewsd.att.com> Date: 27 Feb 91 14:54:04 GMT References: <1991Feb26.234641.13815@morrow.stanford.edu> <5638@tahoe.unr.edu> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 64 In article <5638@tahoe.unr.edu>, sulli_t@tahoe.unr.edu (Tim L. Sullivan) writes: > > Since there seems to be a wealth of expertise out there on lighting > systems these days, I need a couple of questions answered. > > 1. I already have a 12V 5.0Ahr gelled cell battery. What do I need > to keep it charged? First guess was to get a 12V power supply at > the local Radio Shack (they have one that's .5 A). Will this do > the trick? Probably not. It will replace some of the charge, but not all of it. The typical gel-cell cell will give about 2.3V. 6 of those will give 13.8V. What you need to do is force current through the battery opposite to which the battery supplies current. You can build a very simple and cheap charger >from an AC transformer, full wave rectifier and current limiting resister. If your rectifier is beefy enough, you can skip the resister. I built two chargers (one for home, the other for work) from an old AC wall transformer >from a modem, and a 20A bridge rectifier module. This type of charger is the least desirable from the batteries point of view, however, it works very well and will not cause damage to the battery if not allowed to remain on too long. I will allow it to charge all day at work, then, if I use the light in the evening, I will charge it overnight and disconnect it in the morning. This type of charging is referred to as "taper current" because the charger cycle starts out at high current/low voltage. As the battery picks up charge, the voltage rises, and the current falls. If you don't have access to a wall xformer, you can buy a 110V primary, 12V secondary xformer and rectifier bridge at Rat Shack. If you build, be sure to fuse the primary. I don't know your background, but if you are unfamiliar with what I descrided, find an EE friend and explain that all you need is an unfiltered, unregulated DC source that is capable of putting out about 14V at an amp or so. You can also purchase chargers specifically for these cells, but they may be hard to locate and may be expensive. Another alternative is to use an automotive battery charger. This type of charger is just a very high current version of what I described above and will work just fine. Use it the same way. > > 2. There has been much discussion about various halogen lights, mostly > from auto applications. Someone mentioned a plastic Sylvania light > which sounds like the way to go. Would that person please indicate > exactly which model, etc. this was? Everything I've seen so far > is glass and is 55W or better for output. Someone else also mentioned > track lights, I think. Could you please e-mail more specifics? I don't have specifics, but go to your local automotive parts shop and look at the replacement headlights. You should find something suitable. Someone also suggested going to a farm implement store and you can find tractor head lights that come in mounting hardware. I use a 55W light now, but my commute recently went from 20 minutes to 2 hours, so I am going to be looking for a lower wattage bulb. > > Thanks for the help. > > Tim Sullivan (sulli_t@tahoe.cs.unr.edu) Good luck Brad Grande WB0OYX Another bike riding beer brewing kite flying amateur radio operator who still likes CD's! AT&T Bell Labs Naperville Illinausea att!iwtil!grande (708)-979-7853 From frankb@hpsad.HP.COM Sat Mar 2 14:43:37 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!shelby!unix!hplabs!hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsad!frankb From: frankb@hpsad.HP.COM (Frank Ball) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Need a little advice on lights Message-ID: <1510278@hpsad.HP.COM> Date: 28 Feb 91 17:01:58 GMT References: <5638@tahoe.unr.edu> Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA Lines: 33 *2. There has been much discussion about various halogen lights, mostly * from auto applications. Someone mentioned a plastic Sylvania light * which sounds like the way to go. Would that person please indicate * exactly which model, etc. this was? Everything I've seen so far * is glass and is 55W or better for output. Someone else also mentioned * track lights, I think. Could you please e-mail more specifics? Sylvania (GTE) Halogen sealed beam headlamp, all plastic: HP4656 (low beam) This light is 30 Watts at 12 volts or 35 watts at 14 volts (car electrical systems are usually around 14 volts with the engine running). It has a high and low beam filament, both are the same wattage. It is the rectangular type of headlamp for a car that uses four headlights. *1. I already have a 12V 5.0Ahr gelled cell battery. What do I need * to keep it charged? First guess was to get a 12V power supply at * the local Radio Shack (they have one that's .5 A). Will this do * the trick? Thanks for the help. 5.0 AHr will be good for about 1 hr of light, maybe less depending on your taillight. You don't want to discharge the battery all the way, it shortens the life dramatically. Also the 5.0AH rating is when the battery is discharged over a 10 hour period. You get alot less when you discharge it in 1 hour. The 12 volt power supply will not work as a recharger. I recharge my 12volt gel cells at 14.3 volts, but .2 volts either way would be acceptable. When the battery is first put on the charger it will try to draw alot of current. You need to make sure that whatever you use will current limit and not crowbar or selfdestruct. Frank Ball frankb@hpsad.HP.COM pyramid!hplabs!hpsad!frankb From arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM Sat Mar 2 14:43:49 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-col!hpldola!hp-lsd!arnie From: arnie@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM (Arnie Berger) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Need a little advice on lights Message-ID: <28620052@hp-lsd.COS.HP.COM> Date: 28 Feb 91 16:09:41 GMT References: <5638@tahoe.unr.edu> Organization: HP Logic Systems Division - ColoSpgs, CO Lines: 50 In, / hp-lsd:rec.bicycles / sulli_t@tahoe.unr.edu (Tim L. Sullivan) / 9:30 pm Feb 26, 1991 / Tim Sullivan writes, > Since there seems to be a wealth of expertise out there on lighting >systems these days, I need a couple of questions answered. > 1. I already have a 12V 5.0Ahr gelled cell battery. What do I need > to keep it charged? First guess was to get a 12V power supply at > the local Radio Shack (they have one that's .5 A). Will this do > the trick? In order to charge, and keep charged a 12V lead-acid battery, such as a gel cell, you will need a current limited power supply capable of 14.4V DC under no load conditions. The Radio Shack DC supply might be OK, but you should ask the clerk for a voltmeter and measure the output before you buy. Many of the wall plug-in DC supplies are very poorly regulated, and a nominally 12V supply could be much greater under load. At 14.4V, you could leave the charger permanently attached to the battery without any danger of overcharging. > 2. There has been much discussion about various halogen lights, mostly > from auto applications. Someone mentioned a plastic Sylvania light > which sounds like the way to go. Would that person please indicate > exactly which model, etc. this was? Everything I've seen so far > is glass and is 55W or better for output. Someone else also mentioned > track lights, I think. Could you please e-mail more specifics? Both Sylvania and GE make many of these sealed 6V and 12V lamps in various wattages from 3W on up. The reason that they're unfamiliar to us is that they're used in industrial equipment and sold through industrial suppliers. They are also relatively expensive. For example, the 6V 12W bulb I use in my homebrew light comes from a dept. store emergency exit lamp/battery fixture that I acquired many years ago. It uses 2 GE H7553 bulbs. These bulbs cost $16.67 each from an industrial electrical supply company here in town. Arnie ---------- Arnie Berger arnie@hplsdvt Telnet 590-5642 From grande@cbnewsd.att.com Wed Mar 13 03:23:36 1991 Path: mintaka!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!att!cbnewsj!cbnewsi!cbnewsh!cbnewse!cbnewsd!grande From: grande@cbnewsd.att.com (brad.l.grande) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Charging Gell Cells? Summary: not an expert, but I have read the application notes from the vendor Message-ID: <1991Mar5.161135.10984@cbnewsd.att.com> Date: 5 Mar 91 16:11:35 GMT Article-I.D.: cbnewsd.1991Mar5.161135.10984 References: <5638@tahoe.unr.edu> <1510278@hpsad.HP.COM> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 149 In article , dvp@sequent.com (Dan Vander Ploeg) writes: > > There has been a lot of conflicting advice posted on this subject. The latest > advice came from Frank Ball, who writes, "I recharge my 12volt gel cells at > 14.3 volts, but .2 volts either way would be acceptable." But David Wittenberg > quotes Panasonic specs for 6 volt batteries as "Cycle: Voltage 7.25 ~ 7.45" and > "initial charging current less than 1.6A" which would seem to imply 14.9 volts > and 3.2 amperes for a 12 volt battery. > > Well, I'd like to use my 6 ampere automotive battery charger, which is voltage, > not current, regulated, and I read 15 volts when it's charging a car battery. > Is 14.5 really the limit? Is it or is it not necessary to regulate the > amperage? Who's the expert on this subject? > I have spent a lot of time studying the application notes from Gates and from Yasua. There are several different ways to charge a gel-cell. They are: 1-Constant voltage 2-Constant current 3-Taper current 4-Float cycle 5-Step cycle I will now attempt to briefly describe each and their pros and cons: 1. This is considered to best method in terms of cycle life of the battery. If the initial charge is low, the battery will require a large amount of current initially until the charge is restored. As the charge is restored the current will lower. In order to constant voltage charge, you need a good high current regulated supply capable of the initial currents. This can be expensive. You must also follow the manufacturers spec. sheets for the voltage range required, and adjust for temperature. Gates and Yasua both give slightly higher voltages for cyclic (i.e. NOT FLOAT) charging. I don't have the specs. in front of me, but I do recall that it was about 2.4 volts per cell plus or minus about 0.1 Volt for the battery. This gives a charging range of 13.8-15V for a 12V (6 cells) and 6.9-7.5V for a 6V (3 cells). The numbers given above are good. The thing to realize is that this method assumes that the charge voltage is removed, or at least reduced to a float charge voltage when the battery reaches full charge. Leaving it on longer can cause the out gasing of hydrogen and shorted the cycle life of the battery. 2. This is not prefered, but is useful if you have several cells in series that have different levels of charge. If too much current is applied for to long, damage to the cells can occur. Constant current regulated supplies are not very common and can be expensive. You also need to adjust for temp. 3. Taper current is the least desirable from the cycle life of the battery, however, it is the easiest, will give good results for the amateur (such as our applications where we have just one cell, and not trying the maximize the use of each cell over thousands of units where the $ savings add up). In this case, a supply, that is not neccesarily regulated, is connected to the battery. If the initial current is more than the supply can handle, a current limiting resistor is placed in series. As the initial current is high, the charging voltage is low, as charge is restored, the current lowers, and the voltage raises. If the voltage raises too high, the battery can outgas hydrogen which lessens the life of the battery. If you attempt the constant voltage charge, and your supply cannot maintain the voltage at the initial high current, the voltage will lower and the charging behavior will become a taper current model, which is ok, it just costs more than it needs to. Most automotive chargers are for the most part taper current models and will support your needs just fine. Realize that at 15V, you are at the very high end of the range, and must pay attention not to leave the charger on too long. The charge current will initially be high and remain high, then fall off quickly. When it falls off quickly the battery is close to being recharged. Allow the charger to remain on a little longer, then remove it. In terms of cycle life, maybe you will get 2000 charge/discharge cycles from your batter instead of 10000. Clearly acceptible for the needs of a bike light IMHO. 4. Float cycle is for applications where the batteries are present only for times that the main power source is absent, such as an Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) for a computer system. Float cycle assumes that you have a very carefully regulated voltage at a low current. The voltage of the battery is maintained such that a full charge is maintained all the time. If you have a float charger and the cells are low, if the charger cannot handle the initial current, once again the model degrades to a taper current, although if the charger cannot supply much current, the recharge time will be longer, which is acceptible for these types of applications. Float charge voltages are lower than cyclic values, therefore, they can be present on the battery for long periods of time. 5. A step cycle charger is one that starts the charge as a constant voltage charger until full charge is restored, then swithes to a float cycle. It is in a sense a specialized charger. It is more expensive than a float charger. This type of charger is popular in applications such as camcorders where the cycling of the battery is uneven, and the consumer wants a fast recharge, but also is apt to leave the battery in the charger for very long periods of time. A float charger can be thought of as behaving as a step cycle charger for discharged cells, however, you will not receive the fast recharge characteristics. In all of this, I have come to the conclusion that taper current charging is the easiest, cheapest, and very acceptible for the application of our bike lighting systems. If you have an automotive charger, USE IT! The only thing you don't want to do is to leave a charger, that is not well engineered as a float cycle charger, connected to the battery for long periods of time as this will shorten the life of battery. If you have access to the specs of your particular cell, and have access to the types of regulated supplies to achieve constant voltage, and/or step cycle charging, (and you want to carefully monitor the charging process to absolutly positively maximize the life of the battery), go for it, I would rather be out riding! :-) Otherwise, it would not be worth the expense, or the time, when you can build a taper current charger for under $10, or use your automotive charger, and receive good results. Some more notes: -Any over voltage charging will cause the out gasing of hydrogen. The gel-cells are engineered such that most of this hydrogen is internally recombined. The manufacturers reccomend against prolonged or severe over voltage conditions. In other words, if you don't have a float cycle charger, don't over charge for long periods of time. -The time to recharge is dependant on the initial state of charge, the charge current, and the size of the battery. The more current you can deliver, the faster you will charge. An automotive charger can help you here, however, I have homebrew taper charger that can only supply about 1Amp, and my 12V 5AHour battery will fully recharge in about 6 hours. I have also used my auto battery charger with excellent results, however, my charger puts out 15V also, and I have detected that the battery gets warm and outgases hydrogen, so I won't leave it on the charger for much longer than it takes the current to fall. A reasonable indication that you are abusing the battery is if it gets real warm while you charge. You can add a current limiting resistor in series to lower the voltage a bit, this will give you a taper current charger and will lengthen the charge time a bit, but might be easier on your battery. -If the battery is sufficiently depleted such that the battery voltage is low, after it is removed from the load, there can be some recombination of the chemistry at the poles of the cells and the voltage measured will appear back at the fully charged state. The internal resistance is still high and when a load is reconnected, the voltage will drop again. If you are not sure if you battery is charged, connect it to your lights and measure the voltage. I would highly recommend, for those who are so inclined, to contact the vendor of your battery and see if they can send you a set of application notes. I hope this cleared things up for you. I had the same questions and turned to the application notes for the answers. Good Luck! Brad Grande WB0OYX Another bike riding beer brewing kite flying amateur radio operator who still likes CD's! AT&T Bell Labs Naperville Illinausea att!iwtil!grande (708)-979-7853 From jroth@allvax.enet.dec.com Tue Apr 2 23:16:01 1991 Path: mintaka!bloom-beacon!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!apple!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pa.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!allvax.enet.dec.com!jroth From: jroth@allvax.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Nightsun, Bright Light, etc. bulbs Message-ID: <4255@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 31 Mar 91 04:58:04 GMT Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 31 Would someone who owns a Nightsun lighting setup be willing to take a look at the bulbs they use and post the designations or part numbers on them? I'm looking into sources for good bulbs for bicycle lighting at lower cost than the ripoff prices that the likes of Nashtrash are asking. There are quite a few distributers for halogen bulbs of various kinds that have these parts (you can find them in the Thomas Register under "lamps") and the cost from them is quite modest. I can post some 800 numbers for these places if there is interest (Lamp Technology, Specialty Bulb Company, Bulbtronics, Apollo Lighting, etc. - I left the numbers at work.) These distributers have a minimum order (usually around $25 or so) but with PBP running this year there may be interest in group purchases >from various people around the country riding the Brevets and so on to make it worthwhile groups of riders to go that route. Example: The "Bright Light" 4.5 watt bulb is an Osram HPR 51 lamp and the cost from distributers can be as low as $1.30 or so, as opposed to $15.95 from Performance. Needless to say the lighting accessory people are not going to be anxious to divulge such information. Thanks, - Jim From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Sat Apr 6 19:45:18 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!rust.zso.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!sousa.enet.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Nightsun, Bright Light, etc. bulbs Message-ID: <1028@sousa.enet.dec.com> Date: 2 Apr 91 15:52:43 GMT References: <51019@apple.Apple.COM> <4255@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: newsa@sousa.enet.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 39 In article <51019@apple.Apple.COM>, ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes: |> |> In article <4255@ryn.mro4.dec.com> jroth@allvax.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth) writes: |> > |> >Would someone who owns a Nightsun lighting setup be willing to take a look |> >at the bulbs they use and post the designations or part numbers on them? |> > |> >I can post some 800 |> >numbers for these places if there is interest (Lamp Technology, |> >Specialty Bulb Company, Bulbtronics, Apollo Lighting, etc. - I left the |> >numbers at work.) |> > |> There is interest. |> -- |> **************************************************************************** |> Eric House "My employer doesn't share its opinions with |> me, so I can share only mine with you" |> I've been talking to the places Jim found, and they all have min. orders, and most of them insist on money orders for payment. In short a nuisance to deal with. I'm going to place an order this week, so if anyone wants some Brite Lite 2.5, 4.2, 6, or 10 W bulbs, let me know. I think I'll pay a bit under $3 per, so I'll charge $4 a bulb to cover postage, packing, getting stuck with half boxes of some lights, and general hassle factor. If you email your order, I'll order the right amount, otherwise, I may end up with too many or too few bulbs (If there's enough interest, I'll keep a handful on hand). Then send me a check to David Wittenberg 10 Overland St. Hudson, MA 01749 --David Wittenberg From jimh@hprnd.rose.hp.com Wed Apr 10 16:51:56 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!hpda!hpcupt1!hprnd!jimh From: jimh@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Jim Haagen-Smit) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Nightsun, Bright Light, etc. bulbs Message-ID: <860094@hprnd.rose.hp.com> Date: 4 Apr 91 21:56:01 GMT References: <4255@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Organization: HP Roseville Networks Division Lines: 54 In rec.bicycles, jroth@allvax.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth) writes: > Would someone who owns a Nightsun lighting setup be willing to take a look > at the bulbs they use and post the designations or part numbers on them? Here are a few of the bulbs that I found useful, for Nightsun like bulbs you can by MR-11 series or MR-16 series halogen bulbs. These bulbs are available from lighting showrooms and places like Home Depot (places that sell a lot of low voltage track lighting). MR-11 series... I am using a MR-11 35 watt 12V narrow beam G4 base bulb #04464 made by ABCO, others make the same bulb, such as GE, I think the 04464 # is an industry #, not ABCO's #. Also available in MR-11 is medium beam, and other wattages, 20 W and 50W. The MR-11 is about 1 1/16 inch diameter, has built in reflector, but needs a lense to protect it. I mounted it in a 1" PVC pipe coupling that was bored out about .05". The MR-11 is a bit pricey, at $19 and a bit harder to find than the MR-16. (Home Depot did not carry it). For a connector, I used the "normal" size female ribbon cable connector, diagonal across 2 pins. MR-16 series... Also in my lighting system, I have a MR-16 20W 12V narrow beam bulb, #04450 also known as an ESX bulb. This bulb is easier to find, retails for $15 and can be found discount for $11 from Home Depot. The bulb is about 1 5/8 dia. and I fit it into a 1 1/2 PVC pipe coupling with some machining required. Electical connections were hard on this one, it has 2 pins like the MR11, but the spacing did not fit anything that the computer industry used (that I could find). There is also 35W, 50W and 75W MR16 bulbs, also, medium and wide beams, all about $15. These bulbs are a bit big, but they are easy to find. There is also a 10W bulb without a reflector that I saw at Home Depot, I do not know the number. It was next to the MR16 bulbs. I would consider using it. You can take a burned out MR11 or 16 and remove the bulb from the reflector, it is held in with ceramic potting. The problem here is that the MR11, 16's have 3000 hour life rating, at 15 mph that is 45000 miles. This bulb was about $6 at Home Depot. Nightsun uses the 10W bulb above and a 35W bulb that is bigger than the MR11 and smaller than the M16. They have a metal reflector around the 10W bulb. For my time, I might go out and buy the Nightsun. They put the bulbs in nice alloy holders and in general did a good job on their system. One last note, a 35W bulb in a PVC housing gets real hot. Jim Haagen-Smit Hewlett Packard jimh@f.rose.hp.com 916 785 4589 From wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Thu Apr 11 16:36:56 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!sousa.enet.dec.com!zendia.enet.dec.com!wittenberg From: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Personal Request: Brite-Lite bulbs Message-ID: <1055@sousa.enet.dec.com> Date: 8 Apr 91 17:02:54 GMT References: <1991Apr8.143308.29802@cadence.com> <1991Apr7.220019.21026@dm.unibo.it> Sender: newsa@sousa.enet.dec.com Reply-To: wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com () Distribution: na Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 65 In article <1991Apr8.143308.29802@cadence.com>, cranston@cadence.com (W. Scott Cranston) writes: |> |> Sorry to take everybody's time, but unfortunately I must since E-mail doesn't |> work. |> |> Could the guy from Hudson, Mass. who is ordering spare bulbs for |> Brite-Light, Nightsun, etc. post or mail his address again please? I |> foolishly neglected to save it and my e-mail requests keep bouncing. |> |> Thanx. |> |> -scott cranston |> |> |> cranston@cadence.com - Polite corrections to my grammar/spelling are welcome |> That's me. I have ordered 4.2W, 6W, and 10W Brite Lite bulbs, and have some that haven't been spoken for, so I'll accept more orders. If I get a lot more orders I'lll order more bulbs. I'm expecting to receive the first batch within a couple of weeks. The 4.2W, 6W, and 10W bulbs are $4 each. I can get 2.4W bulbs, but those would cost $5.50 each (and that's from the cheaper supplier, the first quote was around $8 each), min. order of 10, so unless there's a lot of interest I won't. A warning for people who are thinking of upgrading the wattage in their Brite Lites: Brite Lite's first head lamp will not work for long with more than a 4.2W bulb. It can be recognized by a single black plastic piece at the back of the reflector, a coil spring used as one contact for the bulb and the words 2.4W in small print along the bottom edge of the lens. Brite Lite did say that you could use a 4.2W bulb in that lamp. I used 6W bulbs and they became intermittant. Apparently the heat melted the plastic which pushed the bulb back against the contact at the base of the bulb. When this failure occurs, wacking the side of the lamp may solve it briefly. I did get home once by hitting the side of the lamp every time the bulb went out, but it wasn't fun. I called Brite Lite (actually Specialized, since they bought Brite Lite) customer service, and they replaced the lamps with the newer XE-1 model for me. That was quite nice of them, since I had been abusing the lamps. The new lamps can take up to a 10W bulb. The lamps can be recognized by the black and red plastic piece at the back of the reflector, and the characters XE-1 in the center of the lens. Someone posted the part numbers for the NightSun bulbs, and I'll try to find out whether I can order those sometime this week. My home address is David Wittenberg 10 Overland St. Hudson, MA 01749 email: wittenberg@ultra.enet.dec.com or wittenberg@zendia.enet.dec.com --David Wittenberg From clausco@killer.cs.ucla.edu Fri May 24 15:25:49 1991 Path: mintaka!olivea!samsung!usc!ucla-cs!shemp!clausco From: clausco@killer.cs.ucla.edu (Claus R. Cooper) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Cateye halogen light Message-ID: Date: 21 May 91 23:00:50 GMT References: Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr. News Himself) Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department Lines: 34 In-Reply-To: mpapp@'s message of 21 May 91 05:05:04 GMT Nntp-Posting-Host: killer.cs.ucla.edu Mike Papper (mpapp@godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au) writes: > I just purchased the cateye halogen light. I was told that it eats > batteries, does anyone know how long alkaline or ni-cad C cells will > last with the light? Also if this is a problem is there a problem with > using simply replacing the bulb with a normal bulb (and using the > halogen bulb for specific scarry nightime rides -- in the city -- on > many roads -- lights are really not much use anyway). About 3 months ago, I took John Forester's advice (Effective Cycling) about lights and purchased one of the generator-powered types. Specifically, I got a Union halogen light, powered by the kind of generator driven by the side of the tire. I definitely got my money's worth. (I picked it up at Performance for about $30US.) I would highly recommend such a light to anyone who is using battery-powered lights and who does not need an exceptionally bright light. The headlight is *very* bright, and definitely lets cars know I'm there. It even seems to light up the road pretty well, though I haven't had the chance to test it on a really dark road. Also, batteries have several disadvantages, including high cost and disposal. ( I read somewhere that disposable batteries account for a significant percentage of the toxic stuff that winds up in dumps.) Also, to be pedantic, lights are extremely useful in the city -- on all roads. In fact, useful is too weak a word. Necessary would be better. The light allows the cars to see you! Use one every time you're cycling at night. Claus Cooper clausco@cs.ucla.edu From schmidt@gmdzi.gmd.de Fri May 24 15:28:10 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!samsung!umich!ox.com!math.fu-berlin.de!unido!gmdzi!schmidt From: schmidt@gmdzi.gmd.de (Klaus P. Schmidt) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Give us light ! Message-ID: <4744@gmdzi.gmd.de> Date: 21 May 91 11:41:38 GMT References: <1991May15.185712.11676@vaxa.strath.ac.uk> Organization: GMD, St. Augustin, F.R. Germany Lines: 54 ccbv02@vaxa.strath.ac.uk writes: >There is a great new dynamo which was announced in the UK in December - it >clips onto the end of an axle and drives off the spokes - therfore no tyre >slip. Unfortunatly it is made/was made in Germany, and the promised supplies >have not materialised. A number of regular all year cyclists are fed up with >the crap tread and tyre driven dynamos, even the Union tread dynamo (Germany) >lasts only 18 months before it self destrrructs! Bridgestone were supposed to >be doing a hub dynamo, but in the meantime can anyone source the "GSX 2000" >from Germany or an equivalent design? >-- >Neil McDonald, Glasgow, Scotland. "Thirty spokes share one hub" Lao Tzu You may get that spoke-driven dynamo from the mail-order house Bicycle Postfach 12 40 D-4800 Bielefeld 1 Germany They have a catalog(ue) (7.80DM, ~4US$) and they say they're selling abroad too. But then you have to order for at least 150DM (~90US$). They offer the GS2000 for 49.80DM. (I don't have any connections to that house). I don't know, whether that dynamo is "great". Some colleagues of mine tried it and it dissolved *long* before 18 months. Let me cite from an adviser on bike-lights published by ADFC (Allgemeiner Deutscher Fahrrad Club, our national bikers organisation): "The manufacturer may have put an end to some teething troubles of the first series, but there are still some troubles the buyer has to put up with: for fixing a puncture the dynamo has to be removed, in doing so you have to disconnect the cables too - it's a very awkward procedure. The casing of the dynamo is welded, so repair is not possible." As a regular all year commuter I got two dynamos on my bike: the Union tread dynamo (does work only on not to glossy treads, in rather dry weather and after I have cleaned the bearings which are unprotected >from grit, puddles and the like -- not to recommend) and a Nordlicht 2000 driven by the side of the tire (swiss-made, nevertheless had difficulties with snow and slush during last winter, but seems to me the most reliable of all dynamos I tried up to now; only that small rubber-wheel on top wears out much too fast). The industry makes splendid lights for cars, I wonder why cyclists have to deal with such scrap. But according to the comments on the net that's not a local problem. I'm eagerly looking forward to a hub dynamo. FahrRad (that's Ride Bike in German) Klaus P. Schmidt schmidt@gmdzi.gmd.de German National Research Center for Computer Science (GMD) P.O.Box 12 40 D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany (+49 2241) 14-2382 ------------------------------------------------------------------- From pamela@ipc2.Camex.COM Fri May 24 15:41:50 1991 Path: mintaka!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!camex!ipc2!pamela From: pamela@ipc2.Camex.COM (Pamela Wybieracki) Newsgroups: rec.bicycles Subject: Re: Accidental battery drain (Re: Cateye halogen light) Message-ID: <2065@camex.COM> Date: 24 May 91 14:02:21 GMT References: <1991May22.095231.3762@waikato.ac.nz> <7910091@hpfcdc.HP.COM> Sender: news@Camex.COM Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA Lines: 29 In article <7910091@hpfcdc.HP.COM> koren@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Steve Koren) writes: > > >> I would highly recommend such a light to anyone who is using battery-powered >> lights and who does not need an exceptionally bright light. The headlight > >The reason I personally don't like generator lights is that they turn >off when you stop (at a stoplight or whatever). This fact makes them >much less useful I think. Are there models which have a small battery >which will light the light for 5 or so minutes when you're stopped? > > - steve I have a Byka generator driven/with battery backup light. It takes 4AA batteries and provides sufficient light at stops to be seen. It also acts as a regulator to keep you from blowing out the bulb at high speeds. (And provides mediocre light at 6mph up looooooong hills) It takes a halogen bulb and at speed (15-20) is one of the best lights I have used. I haven't seen them in bike shops or catalogs recently, but I would be willing to part with mine if you are interested. (I can't get a generator on my vitus) Pamela Blalock Wybieracki pamela@camex.com Camex, Inc. 75 Kneeland St., Boston, MA 02111 Tel: (617) 426-3577