***********************************************************
*                                                         *
*  Snipe Email Digest                                     *
*        From: Mon Feb 20 12:53:05 EST 1995               *
*        To:   Sun Feb 26 06:00:03 EST 1995               *
*                                                         *
*                                                         *
*  Questions and comments to snipe-request@ai.mit.edu     *
*                                                         *
***********************************************************



From charlieb@vnet.ibm.com  Mon Feb 20 17:54:47 1995
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 95 16:58:16 EST
From: "Charlie Bustamante (443-8114)" <charlieb@vnet.ibm.com>
To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
Subject: South American boatspeed

I lost the original article posted here so I can't include it.  My
comments are:

Yes,  the South Americans have very good boat speed.  Most of it is from
sailing alot and training.   They do set up tighter in heavy air.  They
tighten up about 3/8" of an inch on the shrouds (which sets up as several
inches when measured as rake) and pull the jib halyard to the same point.
I was always reluctant to try it since I felt that in a blow I already
had too much helm.  When I tried it I was surprised that it did not add
more helm,  probably because it depowers the main.  So even though the
rig is further aft,  that is cancelled by less power aft.  In my experience
it was not faster.  The boat did feel less powerful and more under control
but not faster.   In fact slower in the lulls.  Our South American friends
are not just setting up differently,  they are also sailing the boats
differently (better) in heavy air.  They get more heavy air there.  They
tend to sail a little heavier.  It all adds up to a little difference that
makes all the difference.   What I am saying is that it's not like we can
just tighten up our shrouds and lengthen our spreaders and expect to
"fasten our seat belts and hold on tight cause were about to shoot out
like a rocket" .   But if it does give you instant speed,  be sure and
let me know.

One reason it has not taken off in North America is because we get mostly
light air.   Some people do it.  I've known about it for over two years
and have only had several occasions to even try it.  Then there's Murphy,,,
I figure that If I try it a major regatta the wind will most _certainly_
drop down in the middle of the race.

As far as jib stay tension,  I'll go out on a limb here and say that
(well,  ok, depending on the jib)  I want jib sag in heavy air.  I say
that because where there is big wind there are big waves.  So I would venture
to say that the tight rig's popularity in SA is probably aimed more at
mainsail control than it is for the elimination of headstay sag.

Anyone else care to comment?

See you at winter circuit,  Charlie
   ______________________________________________________________________
  /\ Charlie Bustamante                Internet:   charlieb@vnet.ibm.com \
 /  \                                    Fax:(407)982-9707 Voice:443-8114 \
/____\   in balmy Boca Raton, FL, USA                  Opinions are my own \
      \_____________________________________________________________________\

From spicknal@umich.edu  Tue Feb 21 05:17:55 1995
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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 05:16:53 +0800
To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
From: spicknal@umich.edu (Mark H. Spicknall)
Subject: Re: South American boatspeed

Thanks for your comments, Charlie B.  I was not arguing that one does not
want some headstay sag in heavy air and chop.  I was simply wondering if
people thought the South Americans were making this sag less dependent upon
mainsheet tension, and perhaps at the same time making the boat easier to
sail in overpowered conditions.  Of course training and practice in heavy
air makes a difference; I did not mean to imply that it didn't.  My
question was meant to focus on the set-up differences and how they might
relate to performance in heavy air.  We still have not received any
comments on this topic from south of the equator.  I guess they're too busy
practicing!  For all of you heading to the Mid-Winters, I hope you have
great weather and a great time. 

Mark Spicknall
University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute
Marine Systems Division
Phone +313.764.2298; FAX +313.936.1081; E-mail spicknal@umich.edu



From 72254.1777@compuserve.com  Wed Feb 22 17:53:47 1995
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Date: 22 Feb 95 17:51:16 EST
From: Vince Casalaina <72254.1777@compuserve.com>
To: Snipe mailing list <snipe@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Fleet 12 / Dist. 7 sched
Message-Id: <950222225115_72254.1777_DHN59-1@CompuServe.COM>

Snipe Fleet 12 Schedule 
1995

March
 4  Sail A Boat Day  RYC help to recruit new Snipers
 5  Mid Winter #4  RYC (Snipe course)
 12  Mid Winter #4A LMSC
 18/19  Spring Dinghy  StFYC 
 24/25/26 Olympic Classes ABYC

April
 1/2  SBRA #1  RYC
    7 Bean Soup Dinner  @  the Gilmours
 15  Flatwater #1  Encinal YC
 22  Clinic   RYC (inside)
 23  Tune-up  RYC    (outside)
 29  Flatwater #2  EYC

May 
 5/6  PCC   Santa Barbara?
 20/21  SBRA #2  LWSC
    Sleepover at the Grubbs
 27/29  Memorial Day  ABYC   SoCal

June
 3  Flatwater #3  EYC
 17/18  SBRA #3  Clear Lake District Champ.
    Snipe Motel  -- party at a resort to be named later

July
 2  Mayor's Cup  LMSC
 8  Flatwater #4  EYC
    Bar B Cue /Swim Party
 15  Clinic   RYC (inside)
 16  Tune-up  RYC    (outside)
 22/23  Huntington Lake Fresno YC Denhart Ser.
    practice race Friday 1300
 29  Flatwater #5  EYC

August
 5  Work Day for Nationals RYC
 6  Tune-up  RYC
 11/13  Measurement
 12/13  Jr. Nationals
 14/18  Snipe National Championship

September
 2/3  Labor Day  ABYC  Denhart Ser.
 16/17  Nor Cal  Regatta RYC  Denhart Ser.

October
 7/8  SBRA #4  Santa Cruz   1100
 28/29  Fall Dinghy  StFYCV   1100

From Griff27054@aol.com  Thu Feb 23 15:10:34 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:10:34 -0500
From: Griff27054@aol.com
Message-Id: <950223151034_30257660@aol.com>
To: SNIPE@ai.mit.edu
Subject: SCIRA Online

Dear Steve, 

I understand from some others in the Snipe class that you have been the
"guru" of SCIRA online.  Thats great!  I sail a Snipe in Jersey Shore area
and just bought a PC for the family.  We are trial subscribers on America
Online. If this gets to you, please send me a confirmation (this is my first
E-Mail on AOL).  I am on the board and would love to get on the mailing list
for SCIRA corresponsence.  Also it will be a great way to get some input on
some from SCIRA members on what everyone wants, input on rule changes
proposed, and regatta announcements/ results.  Basically I'm asking you to
"hook me in".  

Regards, Lee Griffith #27054


From geldridg@ibl.bm  Thu Feb 23 20:00:45 1995
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Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 21:07:27 -0400
Message-Id: <9502240107.AA02800@longtail.ibl.bm>
From: geldridg@ibl.bm
Subject: Trailers/dollies
To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
X-Mailer: AIR Mail 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

Does anyone have recommendations for a light durable dolly that
can handle a snipe's weight and endure a windy, salt spray laden 
existence? It would also be desirable if it was shipped in a small 
box and not too expensive!!!

I see a reference to Seitech dollies on the WWW page. Some of the 
local laser sailors use them but they look a little light for the 
rather more matronly snipe :). Anybody have any practical experience?

Thanks

Guy Eldridge
Bermuda

From TeamBiehl@aol.com  Thu Feb 23 20:42:41 1995
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From: TeamBiehl@aol.com
Message-Id: <950223204239_30590214@aol.com>
To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
Subject: I'm back!

Sorry, but my AOL software bit the dust about 3 weeks ago, and they couldn't
manage to send me a updated disc.  Luckily, I got a copy from my friendly
sailmaker and now at least TeamBiehl is back on line.  I've heard several of
you have had problems sending to the SCIRA office CompuServe number.  I just
sent a message, so I will find out myself what is going on.  I was receiving
approx. 5 messages a day on AOL, and none on CompuServe.....  I'll try to
monitor both systems.  Thanks for your patience.
Jerelyn

From apline@en.com  Fri Feb 24 10:31:48 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 10:23:45 -0500
To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
From: apline@en.com (Alex Pline)
Subject: Re: Trailers/dollies
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 2.0.1>

At 09:07 PM 2/23/95 -0400, geldridg@ibl.bm wrote:
>Does anyone have recommendations for a light durable dolly that
>can handle a snipe's weight and endure a windy, salt spray laden 
>existence? It would also be desirable if it was shipped in a small 
>box and not too expensive!!!
>
>I see a reference to Seitech dollies on the WWW page. Some of the 
>local laser sailors use them but they look a little light for the 
>rather more matronly snipe :). Anybody have any practical experience?

I would recommend the Seitech. I have seen Snipes at regattas on them. There
is a uniquely Snipe version of the dolly, I guess built a little
heavier/wider than the laser dolly. Also, they come disassembled so they
will be easily shipped. My recommendation is to call Seitech for a
catalogue. If you are worried about the capacity, you might try asking them
about getting a dolly that's rated for an even larger boat than the Snipe
assuming that the Snipe will sit OK on it. I believe the Snipe version is
about $350 US.

Alex
===============================================================================
Alex Pline                               
Space Experiments Division   "Moderation in Moderation"
NASA Lewis Research Center
                             PHONE:
SNAIL MAIL:                   (216) 433-6614
 NASA Lewis Research Center   
 Mail Stop 500-102           INTERNET:  
 21000 Brookpark Rd.          mail: apline@en.com
 Cleveland, OH 44135          WWW:  http://zeta.lerc.nasa.gov/stdce/pline.htm


From skeckler@ai.mit.edu  Fri Feb 24 13:54:45 1995
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From: skeckler@ai.mit.edu (Steve Keckler)
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:54:41 EST
Message-Id: <9502241854.AA01722@kiwi>
To: snipe
Subject: [captnmac@kaiwan.com: Manning Series 2/25-26/95]


I saw an update about the Manning series on the Laser email list, and
I thought some people here might be interested.  By the way, is water
pollution common there?  Is it chemical or human waste?

Steve.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return-Path: <laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:41:06 EST
Reply-To: captnmac@kaiwan.com
Originator: laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu
Sender: laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: Jeff McDermaid <captnmac@kaiwan.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu>
Subject: Manning Series 2/25-26/95
X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0b -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas


The Jan/95 Manning Series at ABYC Long Beach, was postponed due to water 
pollution.  Re-sched to 2-25&26-95 in case anyone wants to know.  
NO ENTRY FEE!
Dingies < 16' to be eligible.
Snipes, C-15, Lasers race in ocean. (no big boats...Yea!)
Entries close at 10:00 am Sat.

See you there,

Jeff McDermaid, 
--*147394



From bedford@kegs.saic.com  Fri Feb 24 14:01:02 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 11:00:57 PST
From: bedford@kegs.saic.com (Don Bedford x5644)
Message-Id: <9502241900.AA03452@kegs.saic.com>
To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: [captnmac@kaiwan.com: Manning Series 2/25-26/95]

Yes, I know of several Mission Bay fleet members that will be heading up for
the Manning.

And, yes, after large rain storms the streets are "cleaned" pretty well and the 
bio-waste goes up in the bays.  This is also common in Mission Bay and, I would 
guess, everywere else...

don

> From skeckler@ai.mit.edu Fri Feb 24 10:55:52 1995
> From: skeckler@ai.mit.edu (Steve Keckler)
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:54:41 EST
> To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
> Subject: [captnmac@kaiwan.com: Manning Series 2/25-26/95]
> 
> 
> I saw an update about the Manning series on the Laser email list, and
> I thought some people here might be interested.  By the way, is water
> pollution common there?  Is it chemical or human waste?
> 
> Steve.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Return-Path: <laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu>
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:41:06 EST
> Reply-To: captnmac@kaiwan.com
> Originator: laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu
> Sender: laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu
> Precedence: bulk
> From: Jeff McDermaid <captnmac@kaiwan.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu>
> Subject: Manning Series 2/25-26/95
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0b -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> 
> 
> The Jan/95 Manning Series at ABYC Long Beach, was postponed due to water 
> pollution.  Re-sched to 2-25&26-95 in case anyone wants to know.  
> NO ENTRY FEE!
> Dingies < 16' to be eligible.
> Snipes, C-15, Lasers race in ocean. (no big boats...Yea!)
> Entries close at 10:00 am Sat.
> 
> See you there,
> 
> Jeff McDermaid, 
> --*147394
> 
> 
> 

From jbrady@pearl.east.sun.com  Fri Feb 24 14:10:21 1995
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From: jbrady@pearl.east.sun.com (John Brady - SunNetworks Consultant)
Message-Id: <9502241913.AA05208@deepriver.East.Sun.COM>
To: skeckler@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: [captnmac@kaiwan.com: Manning Series 2/25-26/95]
Cc: snipe@ai.mit.edu
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 2215

I used to live in LA... please note past tense, it's good to be back
on the East Coast!

Anyway, heavy rains in LA usually overload sewage treatment plants forcing
them to dump untreated waste directly into the ocean.  In addition, LA
goes for about 6 to 8 months without significant rain, so particulate
contaminents from cars, power plants, refineries, and any other dirty source
you can think of build up on roads and other paved surfaces.  Surface run-off
goes straight to (you guessed it) the ocean.  The first big rain of the
season typically packs a double whammy producing elevated levels of both
human and chemical pollutants in the coastal waters forcing the closure of
most beaches and a general warning against "touching" the water for a few
weeks.

-- John Brady
   SSA
   Snipe 27393



 | From skeckler@ai.mit.edu Fri Feb 24 13:54 EST 1995
 | From: skeckler@ai.mit.edu (Steve Keckler)
 | Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:54:41 EST
 | To: snipe@ai.mit.edu
 | Subject: [captnmac@kaiwan.com: Manning Series 2/25-26/95]
 | Content-Type: text
 | Content-Length: 1022
 | X-Lines: 34
 | 
 | 
 | I saw an update about the Manning series on the Laser email list, and
 | I thought some people here might be interested.  By the way, is water
 | pollution common there?  Is it chemical or human waste?
 | 
 | Steve.
 | 
 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 | 
 | Return-Path: <laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu>
 | Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 13:41:06 EST
 | Reply-To: captnmac@kaiwan.com
 | Originator: laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu
 | Sender: laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu
 | Precedence: bulk
 | From: Jeff McDermaid <captnmac@kaiwan.com>
 | To: Multiple recipients of list <laser@polecat.law.indiana.edu>
 | Subject: Manning Series 2/25-26/95
 | X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0b -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
 | 
 | 
 | The Jan/95 Manning Series at ABYC Long Beach, was postponed due to water 
 | pollution.  Re-sched to 2-25&26-95 in case anyone wants to know.  
 | NO ENTRY FEE!
 | Dingies < 16' to be eligible.
 | Snipes, C-15, Lasers race in ocean. (no big boats...Yea!)
 | Entries close at 10:00 am Sat.
 | 
 | See you there,
 | 
 | Jeff McDermaid, 
 | --*147394
 | 
 | 
 | 

From gt0499a@prism.gatech.edu  Fri Feb 24 18:28:59 1995
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 1995 18:28:57 -0500
From: gt0499a@prism.gatech.edu
Message-Id: <199502242328.SAA08391@acmey.gatech.edu>
Re:  Snipe dolly
	I know that the Seitech dolly is suitable for the Snipe.  However, 
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1496
Apparently-To: snipe@ai.mit.edu

there are two other manufacturers that make superior dollies for equivalent
prices.  Mike McLaughlin makes a dolly that can actually be towed around a 
parking lot and the Persson boats are on a very good dolly.  both of these
run around $300.  Obviously it would be easier to get a dolly from 
Chattanooga than Denmark.  

RE:  Rig tension
	I can't remember who asked the question about rig tension, but
a rig that is overtensioned is extremely slow.  A lighter crew can sail
with a tighter rig much the same as a lighter crew can point higher in 
light choppy conditions.  The rig tension will determine a sag dimension
that is similar to the camber in the sails.  If there is insufficient
sag then the result will be similar to a sail with too little camber.  
The net result is inadvertant stalling at low speeds.  This is also
why slow and heavy aircraft have fat, flexible wings and fighter
aircraft have thin and more rigid wings.  
	What the optimal tension is I'm not sure.  It seems to work 
best around 200# with 1-1/2 to 2-1/2" of prebend at 21' 3-1/2" of rake.  
I do think that dropping the shrouds down a hole in heavy air with
the same rake measurement is worth trying.  I haven't done this in the 
past, but I may experiment with it in the future.  I normally set the
rig up with one mark for all conditions.  Keep the mast at neutral and
go.  Simple isn't it?

RE:  Lee G
	Good to see you on here.  I thought we would have seen about
six or seven e-mails by now.


Hal Gilreath


